In this episode, Elizabeth explores innovative and cost-effective strategies for trial preparation that go beyond traditional mock juries. Designed with solo practitioners and small law firms in mind, this episode examines techniques like focus groups that can provide valuable insights without the high costs. Learn how attorneys like Ryan Squires and Peter Levine successfully used virtual focus groups to refine their trial strategies, leading to significant verdicts and settlements. Gain actionable tips to enhance your courtroom skills and connect more effectively with juries.
In this episode, you will hear:
- Exploring cost-effective alternatives to mock juries for trial preparation
- Benefits and insights of using focus groups, both in-person and virtual
- Overcoming traditional trial prep challenges for solo practitioners and small firms
- Practical tips for conducting short, targeted focus groups
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Supporting Resources:
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Here are the episodes mentioned by Elizabeth:
Ep 35 Ryan Squires and his Record Setting $40 million verdict
Ep 19 DIY Virtual Jury Research Part 1
Ep 20 DIY Virtual Jury Research Part 2
Episode Credits
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Episode Transcript
Hello and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m glad you’re here and joining me today.
This episode, we are going to talk about a common misconception That I hear when I talk with lawyers and we’re thinking about trial prep and what to do and where to go to learn about jurors attitudes, case themes, you know, who are the good jurors demographically, who are the not good jurors demographically.
And what I always get back is that it’s a mock jury. But this is really kind of the only way that you’re going to be able to learn what you need to learn. To do your trial prep correctly and listen that is not the only way and I want to put together this episode because I know if That’s very much a traditional thought, right?
We’ve learned it from somebody else. It’s been passed down, right? And mock juries are really cool. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve done them. They’re great. But if that’s the only way we think about trial prep, that really starts to exclude a lot of people because they’re so expensive and time consuming. And I can tell you like right here as a solo running my own law firm, thinking of doing a mock jury on my own, like there’s no way I couldn’t afford to do that on any of my cases.
And lo and behold, right, working with other folks and starting to do focus groups on my own, you know, just started to do it. This is what I had available to me. So that’s what I did. Now, when I doing my consulting work and talking with lawyers now for several years, I still keep hearing kind of this, not that it’s a roadblock, but that it is the only way.
Right. Oh, we’re going to do a trial. Oh, we’re doing a mock jury. And so that’s really what this episode is about is, hey, we’ve got alternatives here and why would we need alternatives? Well, again, like I said, number one, thinking about mock jury as the only way to do your trial prep really knocks a lot of people out just based on time consumption.
And money, right? The resource. And that’s because, I mean, traditionally a mock jury is where you’re going to run the full case. So that’s one, a lot of time consumption in putting tech together. So a lot of people, they’re going to have. you know, openings, they’re going to have video evidence, sometimes even live people come and play or read the depositions and you’re gonna have closings, you know, jury instructions.
So it really is the full case and then you watch the deliberations. And so there’s a big resource in, you know, location, videographer, your staff, right. And just helping put these things together. Plus being there, not to mention your, your taxing in the sense time tax in that it’s, you know, You’ve got to put together all these things, all the openings, think about it, get, get extra lawyers to come play all these things.
And so ultimately, it is very clunky when it comes to putting it together and it’s like a whole project management. And it’s really hard to get some qualitative information on specific issues that may be concerning you. Because what you end up getting with a mock jury is you watch deliberations and you get that kind of verdict, right?
And there may be like a debrief and sometimes there is where basically after they finish deliberating, which you’re watching and then you have somebody go in and start, hey, let me ask some questions and just try to get information out of them. They really can’t give you a lot of clear information because they’ve been there all day.
They’ve consumed so much new information. They really probably can’t give you specifics. more than they’ve already talked about in deliberation. So you, you kind of lose out on some of those real sticking points that maybe you wanted to know about or pieces of evidence or, or witnesses, right? So you’re really getting very much a high level, what I call yes, no, right.
You’re getting that verdict where, how they came up with that. Yes, you watch deliberations, but I’m sure if you’ve done one of these, you’re You have the same concern I have, which is like one person is going to nominate right or which what I’ve also seen is where instead of actually like. thinking through and putting together something thoughtful.
They just vote and they just divide and do math and they just move on, right? They’re done. So it’s very hard sometimes to figure out what people are really thinking about the issues because they just kind of do an aggregation of their thoughts instead of actually like kind of debating it like you would think the deliberations go.
So. The other thing is too, once you finish these things, usually you’re spent, right? You’re, you’re exhausted. You’ve got to really move on to doing trial things, motions and liminees and answer all those emails and the judge and you really only have time to do one of these. So you don’t even have comparison information after you get this.
Generally you get, you know, kind of a really large report. You’re not gonna be wrong, like there are definitely, you know, votes along the way and other things to kind of look and test along the way, but again, without having a little bit of a, like a stop in discussion, people just lose it, right? They can’t hold all that information in their brain, then regurgitate it later on in deliberations or rather in the discussion debrief.
So, you know, mock jury, it’s great, but it can be really clunky and, and very traditional. So let’s talk about two alternatives. And number one is the short in person focus group. And when I say short, we’re talking two hours, three hours, maybe four hours max. And why I say that is because thinking through four hours, you’re going to have a couple of breaks, but you’re going to try to get people in and out of there without having to do a meal.
And again, that’s just trying to think through expenses. We’re going to have to get a location. We’re going to have to get a videographer. We’re still going to have this a little bit of an expense to get a neutral location and a place with enough bathrooms. All those things, you know, to make sure participants want to show up and they’re not coming to your office and already having a biased thought about, Hmm, I’m in a lawyer’s office.
I wonder if this is their case, right? Of course, they’re going to assume it’s your case. So the other reason why thinking through these short, like, two hour, three hour in person is in person is still going to allow you the opportunity to practice your presentation style, getting on your feet, practicing that tone, that cadence, It’s the movement, right?
How it works with your PowerPoint. A lot of people really love that piece of a mock jury. It gets them. They put the suit on, you get on your feet and you’re looking people in the eye and you’re delivering the information. Super important, right? That really helps you with practice. That’s why I say one alternative is these short in person focus groups.
And with the shorter version, though, you can really Specifically do pieces of the trial, right? So you can really practice jury selection and you can practice an opening statement. Maybe you skip the jury selection and just do an opening statement and some witness videos. But you’re allowing them to really absorb one piece, get the feedback on that piece, and really jump in and understand what’s behind, right, their reactions or their attitudes and following up to get that information right there, what’s on the top of their brain.
And then moving to the next piece, right? So think about a two hour, you want to do what deer for an hour and you, then you want to run an opening statement. Great. Like you’re going to be able to do that in a way where you’re going to be able to then go back. Well, and you’re getting on your feet, you’re practicing, you’re listening, you’re doing all the good things that what do your requires of us.
And then you’re going to do your opening statement and you’re going to have somebody else get up and do that discussion piece, but you’re going to get the feedback. That you need to hear on those specific issues without crowding more information into their brains. On top of that, and again, thinking if you added an hour, do three hours, right?
So adding in a defense opening here. So there’s a lot of flexibility when we look at just focusing on specific pieces of trial to get you ready and to get that immediate feedback. What also allows you to do is to repeat it, right? Maybe you want to redo your opening or you want to change some things based on what you heard and test it again.
Well, you have the ability, cause these again are shorter. They’re going to be a little more cost effective, but they’re still going to give you that in person presentation style that you want to practice. And then you’re again, going to have this extra data to be able to build more of a data set versus just doing one mock jury.
And again, like I said, it’s much less burdensome on the planning, the putting it together, the time and the money resources. Plus, like I said, you’re getting more qualitative information about specifics that you may have concerns about versus overcrowding them with lots of information and just getting that high level, yes or no, what percentage of responsibility.
Now, you’re still going to get answers to those questions. Like even if you didn’t want them to give it to you, that’s generally what they’re going to do anyhow. So you’re going to get that information, But you’re going to get what’s behind it in a much different format versus watching them deliberate, right?
You’re going to have that moderator asking questions, following up, really digging into the responses that you’re getting. Now, the other alternative, which if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you knew it was already coming, which is short virtual focus groups, because I think that these are so helpful in allowing.
Nearly every lawyer going to trial access to jury research because we are conserving even more money and time by doing these things virtually, there’s no travel, no location fees, no videographers, Right. And everybody just tunes in on their computer. You run everything, share the screen. And again, we’re talking about the same kind of targeted presentations, jury selection, opening statements, Witness videos, it’s the same materials, the materials aren’t really going to change, you’re going to dial them back, right?
If you’re just going to do a one hour focus group, you’ve got to pick your pony. Which one are you going to do? Are you going to practice? And are you going to really then focus in on the target issue or the big worry that you have? Maybe it’s liability, so it’s going to be an opening statement based on liability.
Maybe it’s damages. But you’re really still doing trial prep because you’re taking all the information in, you’re organizing it, and you’re going to put some advocacy in it. You’re going to put it in a sequence. You’re going to try to be persuasive with the information, just like you would in a mock jury, right?
So we’re not losing out on that trial prep aspect, just by having it being one or two hours and on virtual. And again, We’re going to do the same kind of moderating. We’re going to get that instant feedback, that simple feedback, that discussion to help you learn more about your opening statement, your concern areas.
And then you can easily repeat it, make those changes, come back, do a longer one. You’re going to get a comparison of data based on, you know, being able to run these virtuals more often than doing in person. And Again, because of the flexibility of these short focus groups, you can start doing them, right, much earlier than 30 days before trial.
And you would want to do that because then you’re going to get more information and be able to integrate things and be, be much more ready for trial if it does happen. If you start a little further out and that’s kind of where these.
And again, even the better part here is you can do these things on your own. I will put a link to the show notes for our focus group, DIY episodes. So that you can do these without needing a consultant, right? Sometimes they make our lives easier, but sometimes we can’t afford them. That’s totally fine.
Listen, I didn’t ever hire a consultant when I did my own focus groups. I took the CLEs or took the classes. I went to the seminars to learn how to do these things so that I could do them on my own and I know that you are the same way. I know that you are the same way. That’s why you’re here, right? You want to learn the skills and do it on your own and that’s totally respectable.
We all have businesses that we need to run. We got to be very cost conscious in what we’re doing for our clients. And again, if you’re a personal injury, you’ve got a big risk here and you want to make sure that. You’re taking the right risks and that’s where focus groups help you make those decisions.
So two main examples I want to talk about here before we conclude this episode. Number one is attorney Ryan Squires. He did an episode with me, 35. It’ll be linked in the show notes where he talked about. His big verdict that he got, but what he did to prepare at the time it was in 2021 and so we just, all we had were virtual focus groups at the time that the trial was also going to be virtual.
So they did three virtual focus groups and in every focus group, they did opening statements. That’s all they did. And they were months out from trial, but what he explains in my interview is he had so much confidence. and felt so prepared because that opening was steel tight. I mean, they had dialed in their visuals, their PowerPoint based on what people were saying and being able to convey that in such a clear, simple way.
And they had a complicated case. It was a 20 year history between family members with hundreds and hundreds of emails about moving money and fiduciaries and investing. And so it was easy to get complicated and bogged down and overwhelm the jury with too many facts. And I think that’s why they came and they said, we’ve done it.
This is all we want to do. We just want to do opening statements. We want to get this dialed in and surefire. It was very well dialed in, you know, other things happened at trial, but they ended up getting a 40 million verdict in that particular case. The other example that I have is a lawyer that I work with.
In California, his name is Peter Levine, and he likes to build the focus groups. And again, they’re always still for trial prep, though, you know, we’re not, you know, things aren’t going to get started churning doing focus groups very seriously until we’re, you know, four or five months out. And then he’s kind of building, doing these one hour, two hours, three hours, and building on the information as we get it and continuing to test everything until, you know, we’re Again, we’re coming down to the last two or three and doing opening statements to make sure.
Right? We’ve gathered the information. We’ve listened to what the focus groups have said before, but also right, giving it back to make sure and test everything and, you know, having good success doing that as well, that the couple of times that we have worked together the past five years, mostly we’re med mals, but also all kinds of other cases as well that basically really end up turning up where the, they settled in the middle of trial or set it right before trial, but giving them the confidence to know what jurors were thinking.
So they can make that decision about settlement. So here’s the bottom line. You are not stuck with mock juries. Okay. It is not the only way to do trial preparation. And again, that thought that, uh, mock jury. Okay. But it’s so expensive. Like that forces so many lawyers out of just not doing them all together.
Right. Oh, this case isn’t worth it. Right. Now that’s an easy way to say, like, I’m not doing any jury research. I’m just guessing. So. Again, let’s go back. We’ve got two alternatives here. We’ve got our short in person focus groups and we’ve got our virtual focus groups. Because here’s what you need. You’re coming down to the wire.
You’ve had this case, you know all the facts, and it’s coming to the time of trial. We’ve got to make a lot of hard decisions about evidence and order of proof and final settlement offers. And what you really need is digestible feedback in short bursts, efficient with your time and your money that’s effective on the issues that are keeping you up and worrying you the most.
And it’s repeatable. Right? You can go back and repeat it and test it to really gain confidence and assurance that your case, when you give it over to the jury, is going to be the winning case. And that’s what we need, right? We have to give it over. Jurors are the ones that make decisions. So don’t walk in blind, right?
You’re not left out in the cold here if you don’t have money for a mock jury or a large data survey or, you know, one of the other large jury research products that are running around there. So I hope that this episode was helpful. I hope that you, you know, look at some alternatives and again, cool thing about virtual and even in person, you can set those up as well on your own.
The shorter versions make it easier and digestible for you and your staff to be able to put them together. So. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you did, I’m going to ask you to join the trial lawyer prep newsletter using the website that is listed in the show notes, www. laricklawfirm. com slash connect.
I send out an email just once a month, trial tips, strategies, extra resources. It’s really more of an in depth place where I put my thoughts on the same topics that we discuss here in the podcast. Okay, until next time, thank you so much. Oops, I meant to mention before we close out this episode right now in this month, I am doing a special offer to my email list.
For the on demand DIY virtual focus groups for beginners. However, I’m only giving it to the email list. So be sure and go to that website to fill out the form and get yourself on the email list for the emails that are going out this month. And you’ll get the added bonus for being on the email list. www.larricklawfirm. com/connect.
