Deborah Hensley Loewe and Her Favorite Part of Trial: Jury Selection
There is more than meets the eye when it comes to selecting a jury. Through the voir dire process, lawyers are able to choose a fair and impartial jury.
In this episode, Deborah Hensley Loewe, an amazing mentor and friend, talks about why jury selection is one of her favorite parts of the trial. She also shares some tips in jury selection as well as how using focus groups is also a great way to prepare for a voir dire.
The voir dire process can be composed of a 30-60 person panel, although Deborah has experienced having 100 people on the panel.
Every case is different. You may have to move your voir dire around and put certain questions in, that may or may not be in one of your other trials, because you have to take little issues that you want to get there before the defense gets there. But at the end of the day, you have to tailor it to your case and your person.
Another tip she mentions when it comes to preparing for a voir dire is to make it your own. It has to be something you can pull off and where your authenticity should come through, otherwise, they’re not going to buy your case.
In this episode, you will hear:
- Speaking out your voir dire vs. just reading it
- It’s okay to use your notes!
- Questions on pre-existing conditions
- Tips in styling your own voir dire
- Changing the way you talk to sound authentic
- The benefits of using focus groups to practice your voir dire
- In-person vs. virtual focus groups
- Types of questions for jury selection
- The power of practice
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Supporting Resources:
Deborah Hensley Loewe
Attorney at Law
Hensley Law Firm
706 W. Ben White Blvd.
Bldg. B, Ste. 235
Austin, Texas 78704
(512) 476-9988
If you’d like to learn more about Deborah and her practice https://hensleylawfirm.com/deborah-hensley-loewe/
If you’d like to connect with Deborah, she can be reached at: deborahhensley@henselylawfirm.com
Do you have a question? Suggestion for an episode? Please email me: elizabeth@larricklawfirm.com
Episode Credits:
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know we sent you.
Episode Transcript
I am excited for this episode because we are going to interview my good friend, Deborah Hensley Lowe. She and I have been very good friends since I moved to Austin, and she has been an amazing mentor [00:01:00] and friend when it comes to Getting ready for trials or just anything litigation related. So I’m excited to have her on and talk to everybody a little bit about jury selection.
So hi, Deborah, and welcome to the show.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Hi, Elizabeth. Thank you for that introduction.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah, I’m excited because I’ve come and watch you do jury selection. I’ve seen you do lots of in person and virtual jury selection, but before we totally jumped to that topic, I just want to pick your brain about for you.
What is the funnest part of trial? tried over 20 cases. You know, you told me in your all years of practice that kind of averages out to about one a year now given the pandemic has made everybody have a little bit of a shortage here on doing a trial last two years. But for you, what’s the funnest part?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: The funnest part really is talking to the jury. And so that would be during the board, our jury selection. And so that’s the most fun with me. I like to talk to people and you’re kind of interviewing the jury. So it’s [00:02:00] fun. So I like that part.
Elizabeth Larrick: Jury selection. Sometimes it’s a panel of 30 random people.
Sometimes it’s bigger than that, maybe 40 or 60. How do you relax and talk to that many people?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Oh, sometimes even 100. I’ve had 100 panel in a little town called Hillsboro. Really the relaxing part. So I work out a lot to release that nervous energy. And when I go into the courthouse, you’re still a little nervous, but once you start talking to the jury about, you know, what’s their passion, what’s their passion, What do they like to do?
And you get them talking with the question like that. When they talk, it relaxes me. So when they start telling about their good feelings and things they love to do, that helps me relax. And so I soak that In their feelings of peace and relaxation, when they talk about themselves, people like to tell you a little bit about themselves.
And so, especially about happy things, what makes them feel good [00:03:00] about themselves. And so that relaxes me at the beginning of the voir dire, I’m more nervous, but then when I start that intro and getting who they are and what they love to do and how they spend their time, that sets me where I’m good. I’m relaxed for the rest of the voir dire.
Elizabeth Larrick: So is there anything that you do in preparation that kind of gives you a little bit of confidence going in that people are actually going to interact with you?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Sure. So I talk to everybody and anybody who comes across with that could meet at the grocery store. I was on a plane, uh, one time on a flight and I talked to this guy about before I did focus groups, I talked to this guy about my case and he gave me a perspective that I was pretty shocked about.
And it really. Change where I went with that case. So I really try to talk to anyone, anywhere. My kids swim for years. So I talked to the parents, I talked to friends, family. My mom is in her seventies and if she don’t get it, nobody’s gonna, because she’s [00:04:00] grown up with my dad’s an attorney too. And so I try to talk to those.
Sometimes my kids, I grew up with my dad saying, Hey kids, what do y’all think about this? And so I do a lot of that. So it’s really. Little parts of your word, I are separating it out and talking to somebody about anything you think is going to be weird or odd or just try it out. I talked to myself, I sit out in my backyard and I go through my word out loud.
It’s very different reading it than speaking it. So if you just practice your board iron, you’re looking down and you’re reading all the time, that doesn’t do it. You got to train your brain to speak those words. So when I first started and I didn’t do focus groups, I did that a lot. And I would call one of my lawyer friends.
I go, Hey, can you just, you know, hang on the phone. And so I would speak out loud a lot. And I. I remember going to a party for one of my friend’s kids and I would be speaking my word. I are on the way driving to a kid’s party. I guess [00:05:00] that’s what I do.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. And I, I mean, the joke is, you know, you can talk to yourself as long as you don’t answer.
So are you, are you your buddy or
Deborah Hensley Lowe: no, I don’t, I don’t do role play with myself.
Elizabeth Larrick: No, I’m, I’m just teasing, but, um, no, it makes, it makes a lot of sense. So it sounds to me like you’re memorizing it. Are you, is that kind of what you’re doing?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: not, not necessarily. I do memorize. I mean, most I’ve done a lot of it so many times and I do memorize it.
But I also have notes because and I asked permission for the jury. I’ve done focus groups where I have not done it and they’ve given feedback. But if you ask permission, like, hey, I have an outline and it’s real important and I don’t want to forget anything. Is it okay if I use my notes? And you get, Oh yeah, you know, they like, you’re a human being now.
You’re not just this fancy lawyer talking down to them. So I think that gives you a little credibility, but it also gives you permission to use your notes. I don’t, I do not have my whole Verdi memorized, although some of the questions I do because I’m just, I use them every single [00:06:00] trial and every single focus group almost, but I don’t have all my Verdi memorized.
No, I use like an outline.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. And as far as having a set list. If you have a, do you have a set list for different types of cases or is it more like you’ve got a couple of questions that are always going to go into your jury selection, no matter what type of case it is.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah. So always preexisting condition question, because Maybe you can say I’ve had a case without pre existing conditions, but most of them have it or have the potential for the jury to think they have it.
And so either way, I like to get that question talking to the jury about what they may have had in the past and how they feel about the system, whether they should be compensated to an aggravation to a pre existing condition. And so I like to use that Not necessarily for the answers that I get, but just to talk to the jury about that before somebody else gets a chance to.
So to condition them that [00:07:00] it’s okay. And then that gets them to talk about themselves more too. And so that’s a question I always ask. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a trial where I did not ask that question because I think it’s just a good question. That’s probably the one I always use. But yeah, so every case is different.
You have to move your Vortire around and put certain questions in that may or may not be in one of your other trials, because you have to, you have to take little issues that you want to get there before the defense gets there and you get to talk first. So it’s real important to categorize whatever that issue is and the way you want it to come out and not let them do it.
when they get up. And so that may be different in every case. So I can’t just take Joe’s board. I are and do it for myself because a wouldn’t be me. So maybe not, it’s not maybe a fit, right? Each lawyer has a different style, different questions. Some of them would like, I [00:08:00] could give somebody my preexisting condition.
They could probably do that, but you really have to tailor it to your case and your person. Can you say it with a straight face? Cause if it comes out cheesy, it’s no, no good.
Elizabeth Larrick: So you just kind of backtrack on what you said. You, when you said, Joe, you can’t go to another lawyer and say, Hey, can you just give me your jury section?
Your, what are your questions? And just run those because you’re, it’s, you need to make it individualized style your own. So that doesn’t sound awkward.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah. Or, or unauthentic. So that’s the worst of the jury thinks you’re full of it. They are not going with you. And so if that question is like, I can’t use those words, that sounds stupid.
Well then you better not say them. If you really feel that way, you better make it your own. And I’ve done that. I’ve gotten really good questions from other people and I’m like, I can’t use that word because I mean, I don’t talk that way. I just can’t, I can’t pull that [00:09:00] off. And so I have to change it and make it something that I can pull off and that I do sound authentic because if they see you and they don’t think you’re authentic, they’re not going to buy your case.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. Is that, as far as talking about language and style, do you ever particularly Maybe take in other questions or maybe we hear all kinds of CLEs about, Hey, ask this question, whatever. Do you ever take those questions and then try to make the questions like really simple or into something that you know will have a point of view of a juror when it comes to language?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Sure. Absolutely. Attorneys share nothing. Nobody ever really creates something. the first time. Yeah, nothing original. That’s a word. Yeah. So maybe somebody did at some point create something originally. But I think no matter what trial school you go to or trial college or whatever, it came from somewhere and then everybody added to it like a big salad.
And, and so you have to like more fit into [00:10:00] what you want and what fits in your case. And yeah, you got to take from everywhere. I read some of the books and so it’s, you just got to take from everywhere and figure out, Hey, this works for my case and figure out what works for you. But yeah, you got to keep learning and you got to keep going to these CLEs and figuring out, but just because you hear it in a CLE doesn’t mean it’s true.
I saw a trial consultant talk one time. I totally disagree with everything she said, but you know, she was legit and she helped a lot of people, but for my style and how I present a case, it wasn’t good for me. So you have to know that.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. And I mean, I think also. From my perspective, practicing a few less years, when you go to CLEs or you pick up a new book, sometimes the tone of it is just not going to match my tone, feminine way versus masculine, or even in it’s difficult for me to say that, for example, like you have this awesome preexisting conversation that you have and [00:11:00] you use your, your injuries from Karani.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so it’s awesome because, Oh man, because you, you love, Obviously that, and you light up and, and they know, because you’re really talking about something that is true to you versus if I try to talk about that and I’m bringing in like, maybe this is something, it just not going to sound as authentic.
And I’m, I may struggle with it. Like, I’m actually going to get it out. Yeah. And then they’re going to like struggle giving me something back. So, right.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah. I’ve had a lot of preexisting conditions, but my feet, you know, I taught myself how to do a front handspring. When I was a teenager in my yard, I didn’t have anybody showing me.
And then I did karate. I run. And so all of those things, I think that the one you’ve heard is get out of bed and I have to roll my ankles around and I have to find my flip flops. Because I don’t want to step on the ground without any shoes on, but you know, give me about 15 minutes and I’m fine. So that’s actually what I use.
That was one of the intros I think you’ve seen, but yeah.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. Oh [00:12:00] legit. Right. And I think sometimes the other thing that, and I’ll, I’ll be honest. Pick on my husband because he corrects me pretty often and sometimes with how I say things. Well, you need to say it in a different way. And I said, actually, I really want to talk like everybody else talks.
I don’t need to talk more formal. Actually. It’s not good. You need to talk as simple as possible because then you’re going to communicate with more people. And it’s not something like you’re talking down to them or you’re not like, what’s your take on all that?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: So my take on that is my dad always used to tell me he’s an attorney and he’s in his seventies and he used to always tell me like, you don’t talk like a lawyer.
And I was like, okay. But then I, I don’t know, I was at a TTLA seminar, David Ball talked and he’s real big on just talk like a regular person. You know, you talk like a lawyer and I was like, yay, that’s awesome. I can do that. And so it gave me permission to just talk. Like I talk, you
Elizabeth Larrick: know, Some things as simple as, is [00:13:00] it a motor vehicle versus, is it a car?
It’s like,
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah, right. Motor vehicle. We learn that because you’re looking at statutes and how it’s. written and stuff. That’s not what people say. Hey, I was in my motor vehicle and I had a car or a motor, another motor vehicle of a larger size and weight. Nobody talks like that. I had a car crash. The other car ran into me.
This car ran the red light. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think we’re conditioned as lawyers to try to talk it up, but really doesn’t sound that authentic when we do.
Elizabeth Larrick: Right. And I understand sometimes when we’re talking to each other. We’re immersed in our profession. So we talk the way that we are reading it versus talking to, to jurors.
So I want to kind of move and ask you about, you know, using focus groups to practice. So tell me a little bit about that.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: No, I love that. I mean, I’ve done them and you’re wonderful. And you helped me set them up. And I really appreciate all that. Before I did them with you, I’m a member [00:14:00] of. a networking group, like, um, other businesses around town.
There’s like 20 of us. And so I would use my 10 minute speech to do a real quick Vortire ish on one topic where it didn’t really matter if I was a lawyer or not. It’s just like, how do you feel? What’s your, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you see this? Here’s a picture or here’s a phrase or what have you.
And so it just gives you a practice. You get up there, you stand up, you have to talk to people. You have to get answers from people and you have to learn one of the lawyers was, there’s another lawyer in my group and he played the difficult juror and you know, you practice how to handle that, right? He was kind of doing a role play with me, which was hilarious, but he really liked my answers.
He’s like in his eighties, but anyway, so that was pretty fun. And then it just helps you identify like problems because all, all lawyers kind of think alike on a certain level. And we may miss that issue that the regular, not the normal folks that [00:15:00] aren’t lawyers. are going to pick up on fast and focus groups help you do that.
Because why do you try five cases to figure it out? Why don’t you just do five focus groups, especially with some of the larger cases, because you want to know just an example. I had a case where it was an odd type of case. And we needed a visual, but I didn’t know that until we ran a focus group. And I said, well, what kind of injuries would you expect?
And they said, Oh, maybe an elbow injury. And my guy had two back surgeries. So I was like, Whoa, wait a minute. They needed a visual. And because I did the first focus group, then I was able to set up. A visual of what happened, like walking through little mannequins and models and all this. And then they got it immediately.
And so the adjuster got it immediately. And so that’s just an example of how valuable it is, because if they’re not getting it, nobody’s going to get it. And you didn’t, and I didn’t know why they weren’t getting it. I just knew they didn’t get it because they had a. 25, 000 offer. And then we settled it for [00:16:00] high six figures.
So that was the power of the focus group and getting the feedback because you want to kind of lose your first focus group, right? Or you want them to think, oh, that’s terrible. Well, what would you want to see? Oh, well, we want to see this, this, and this, and this. Okay. Well, what else would you want to see to prove something like this?
And so that was just so valuable too. That’s just one specific case. But you know, it also tells you how much do they care about your issues? Do they care a little bit? They’re like, eh, or they care like, oh, wow, we really care about that. And so you get a gauge of how serious your case is and how far you should go with it.
Or maybe if you should even take it at all. I know I’ve done a focus group with you where I wasn’t sure I was going to take the case. Until after the focus group, because it was, there was a lot of facts that could go either way. And so before you spend a lot of money investing in time, those focus groups will help you narrow that down.
Should I spend all my money and energy in this case or not? [00:17:00]
Elizabeth Larrick: And I, I think you, one of the things that makes it really efficient as well is like the ones that you are specifically talking about, we’re getting all that work done in an hour. Right. You know, I mean, you are being really, really efficient with the time that you have, being cost efficient and gathering information.
And I think. One of the things too, that we gather when we talk to focus groups, even no matter what style we’re doing, maybe we’re practicing during selection, maybe we’re just talking about neutral narrative, clarity of speech. Like I’m not understanding, like, what’s the question? You know, like, Oh, that question is completely unclear.
Right. And I had one of those really helpful to know, like, and what are you really asking me? And they’ll get to the heart of the issue much quicker.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah, because I had one with you and I don’t remember the question or the subject matter, but I remember the question was a total flop and I had never done it in a jury before because it was a different kind of case and I was adding to it, but it was a big old belly flop.
[00:18:00] And so I scratched that out and that won’t be part of my board iron. But had I done that in the board iron, that would have been like this awkward silent moment that’s harder to recover from when you have this nice flow going on. So that was a big, that was a big help. So, yeah.
Elizabeth Larrick: And, and think about the difference between actual jury selection and focus group is like the focus group people will probably actually tell you, that’s a bad question.
You know, the jury selection can stare at
Deborah Hensley Lowe: you. Yeah. And this focus group just stared at me, actually. They didn’t say that’s a bad question, but I asked, do y’all understand that? And they were like, uh, so, you know, I figured it out. I did, I did get the stare. So yes, the blank stare, like
Elizabeth Larrick: I’m
Deborah Hensley Lowe: the blank stare and I’m like, okay, that’s a really bad question.
Elizabeth Larrick: And I think some of the ones like we’re talking about are virtual. So as far as in person versus virtual, you feel like getting the same feedback or there are major differences between those two different methods of doing
Deborah Hensley Lowe: them. I don’t know about in every case, but I had a [00:19:00] very serious injury case that you did two focus groups with me that we did them and one was live and the other Before COVID, I think it was right before COVID and we had 10 people, at least maybe 11, 12, and then we went through that in certain subjects and a PowerPoint.
That was really, I wanted to see how my PowerPoint would affect them. And was I conveying the information good enough in that PowerPoint? And then the next one we did virtually and. Really, the result was the same. So I think in certain cases, it doesn’t matter whether it’s virtual or in person. Now, I like to practice more.
If I’m going to a live trial, I want to get up and stand up and have to move around because I tend to just stop. Stay in one place. And so I have to really tell myself, well, move around and move your arms and don’t just stand there like a statue. And so I guess that would be the one thing that I prefer is [00:20:00] because it makes you practice standing up and going to the wall or going to this.
And so it’s more of a precursor to the real trial, like a dress rehearsal, I guess.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. And, and have you seen, cause you’ve again, post pandemic now you’ve done virtual before you’ve done. Have you seen any major shifts? And people’s opinions or attitudes? Oof.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: I haven’t tried a case since the pandemic, but I’ve done a lot of focus groups.
Hmm. I’ve watched a lot of, of virtual trials and I don’t know that it really has. I think that if they think you need to win, you’re going to win. So maybe they’re a little nicer that way. I know I watched a trial with the plaintiff though, was a witness, the person that was injured and it was terrible. I felt really sorry for her.
She was not prepped adequately and it came across very Jerry Springer ish. and was terrible, but they still won [00:21:00] because the jury didn’t want to let this company off when their person was texting and driving an armored truck. And so I don’t really know, but I think, you know, I think juries are like, Hey, if you did it, that’s up to it.
And maybe even more so now.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. And I was going to say the, you know, having done quite a few since pandemic and quite a bit before, I would say the thing that as far as what I have seen shifting in people is one, this kind of collective experience we all had, we all lost the world that we grew. And a lot of times we’ll be talking to, you know, focus groups about a very common issue for many, people, which is a gap in treatment.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: I was, I
Elizabeth Larrick: wrote that down. Yeah. And, and. And we won’t, and this, not necessarily, I’ve had other business cases where we’ve done virtual and they will pipe up and say, don’t forget the pandemic. People didn’t, I couldn’t go in for my heart checkup or my, my dentist. And we all had to like, [00:22:00] couldn’t go see anybody.
Okay. So it’s that experience is still fresh on their minds. Like what they couldn’t do and what they couldn’t experience. And they get it because they couldn’t do any of that stuff either. That’s one thing I feel like everybody has still very fresh on their minds is that experience and you can translate that I’ve heard people do closing arguments like translating kind of that collective experience into understanding a little bit more when you have a client who maybe has lost mobility and they have isolation or they’ve lost family members and the grief and so I’ve seen people translate it but that’s definitely one of the things that I’ve seen overall is a little bit more collective experience, which gives you just a little more empathy.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And that’s something that before maybe not as many people had experienced that gap in treatment and why I did have like an eight month gap in one of my clients cases. And so that was a specific question I asked, Hey, does anybody knew they kind of needed to go to the [00:23:00] doctor, but they put it off.
And they waited, and then there was a ton of people, and then why? And so I think it would really come into the why, because even when doctor’s offices open, some people were afraid to go, because you’re exposed to all these people. I know I didn’t take my kids to the pediatrician, because I’m like, why would I want to take a healthy kid into a place with a lot of sick kids?
they can wait. And so I think it definitely will. People will have a more of an understanding of why somebody could wait because of fear of getting sick or whatever, whatever else it was because they couldn’t have access to medical care. But at least you’re right. It’s like a shared experience now. So if my client has a gap in treatment, These days.
I’m not as concerned about that. So absolutely. That’s a great point.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah. I want to ask you just a couple of questions that are always feel like they’re hanging out and everyone kind of has a different opinion on it. And one of them is preponderance of the evidence. Do you feel like you need to always ask that question or where do you land on asking [00:24:00] that question to the jury?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: I didn’t do that in one trial. It didn’t go well. I swear to God. Cause I talked about it in the closing and somebody gave me a stare, like, what are you talking about? You’re crazy. And I was like, Oh, wow. So because of my own experience and I’m going to ask it, Now, I might not ask it to everybody and I may put it in there after I figure out who my favorable jurors are, because I think I actually got rid of a guy who had a problem with the preponderance, but would have been a good juror for me.
So I shouldn’t have pressed it as hard with that particular juror because he’s an engineer and they’re all like, what do you mean preponderance of the evidence or, you know, greater weight or more likely than not, or what have you, but it. I will always put that in there now just because of my experience.
I don’t want the jury to be surprised when I start talking about that in closing. And so it’s better to, I think it’s always better for the plaintiff to say it first. And if you let [00:25:00] the defense explain that with their football, horrible analogy, well, it’s like the goal line. No, that’s a hundred percent.
It’s a terrible analogy, but I had somebody use it and he was close enough with the wording where I don’t think the court would have scolded him. Maybe the other lawyer didn’t object. I would have been like screaming up and down, but because that gets a 50 yard line, a 51 yard line, not the goal, but the way he said it.
I think it was very confusing, and so I will always have that in there in some form or fashion. Yes, that’s where I land on that because of that shocked look from a juror at the end of one of my cases. I’m not going to get that again.
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. One of the other questions is talking about money.
How do you feel about talking to the juror in jury selection, right? They’re just a panel at that point. They’re not jurors yet. How do you feel about talking to them about money?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: I think it’s okay because in a death case, can they award a lot of money or are they never going to award a lot of money? Hey, this [00:26:00] is all we got.
So you got to form some kind of questions to however you’re going to say it. Definitely. In all the cases, pain and suffering, mental anguish, you got to ask them if they’ll allow an amount of money for that blank, because some people won’t. And you’ve got to know that. So that’s where I talk about money in every case is that, will you allow an amount of money?
Not how much, not asking you for how much, but will you consider an amount of money for this, you know, or that, or whatever’s in your jury slot? Because some of them won’t, some are like, nope, medical bills and loss of earnings, that’s it. Well, you got to kick those people off. Well, how many feel like Mr.
Smith and you felt that way a long way, right? Yeah. So anyway, you got to get those people out of your jury. So you have to do that. And I know I have talked about that in the, my a hundred panel one awarding money for a loss of life. Can some people do it? Can. Was it going to be like 10, 000 or can you work some real money?
So [00:27:00] that’s, I, and I’ve read some books on that and that’s always a quandary. I think that’s, you know, what you have to decide. One thing I don’t talk about in the opening after some of my training, I thought you had to give your, how much money I want in the opening and you don’t. And so I don’t because at that point, they don’t know you, they don’t know your client.
If you ask for a ton of money at the beginning, I think sometimes that skews you like, Oh, there it is. Lotto justice. And for me, I like to see how the case goes, see how the trial goes, see how the jurors are. And then I want to ask for my money because in one case, I asked for the beginning. And I didn’t ask for a lot, enough money.
And the juror told me that at the end, and I was like, Oh, I don’t ever want that to happen. But because I’d asked for it the beginning and the case went wonderful. He testified phenomenally. He still had tons of mental anguish and man, he, the jurors like you didn’t ask for enough money. Cause you know, we had to negotiate it and yeah.
So
Elizabeth Larrick: how much [00:28:00] time do you think you in a typical jury selection, what’s, how much time do you want to be able to accomplish what you need? 30 minutes,
Deborah Hensley Lowe: 45 minutes. No, I don’t know why everybody says 45 minutes. I want an hour and a half if I can possibly get it. I’ll deal with an hour, but I’m rushed. I’m rushed through some questions.
I don’t know. I’ll deal with whatever I get. But like I remember I asked the local judge, Hey, I need an hour and a half. And he looked at me like I was loco. And I was like, look, you can cut me off if I’m wasting the jurors time. Nobody’s talking. You can cut me off. Just give me the time. I need it. There’s a lot of issues to go through.
And he gave me that courtesy and he did not cut me off. And the jurors kept talking. There were still issues. I wasn’t floundering around with my notes and not asking the right questions. So I’m very like particular. I go through a subject, go through the next subject, go through the next subject. So if I was just floundering around, I probably would have cut me off.
But I think that’s the preparedness is really important.
Elizabeth Larrick: Gotcha. And that kind of, I was going to say, do you have a [00:29:00] particular sequence that you like to follow or do you feel like some things need to go in the front, some things got to go in the back? Yeah.
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Oh, definitely a sequence. I love the passion question.
I know some people use it. Some people don’t. You got to get them to start talking about themselves and then I’m going to talk to you for the rest of it. I know I’ve heard a couple lawyers share that question in some of our CLEs. What are they passionate about? Cause then they go, Oh, passion. Oh, well, I like this and I like this.
It makes them feel good. And you’re asking about them, which makes them say, Hey, this guy’s not this girl or guy or whatever, is not such a jerk. And I just going to shove a bunch of information down my throat. So that’s really helpful. Can I answer your question?
Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah, no, you didn’t know. Absolutely. Is there, so we kind of run through lots of different topics.
Is there anything else you would add? This. Overall, the podcast is to help folks who are in the trenches and out there. And a lot of people are going back to trial right now. And is there anything you would add or any tips or tricks or things that you [00:30:00] could tell our audience?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Sure. Have your outline, be real specific.
You can’t wing it. Just don’t. And don’t think you have to memorize it. Have your outline. Ask for permission. If you ask that jury for permission, the board are, they’re going to like you more better. And then they’re not going to criticize you for using your notes. So definitely don’t be afraid to use your notes.
I know that I’ve heard other people say, Oh, you can’t use your notes. And, but. I don’t care. Everybody uses notes, except for what a lawyers or actors on the screen or on the plays. But normal people look at their notes in a meeting. You see people running down their notes because they don’t want to forget something important.
And that’s maybe that may be some of the biggest advice. Even in the opening. I’ll use my notes sometimes. Well, most times really. And closing if I need to, I mean, I don’t feel bad about it. Maybe I’ll try one without doing that, but I like to make sure I’m not missing anything. So some people can memorize really easily.
Great. Don’t feel bad about it’s better to be organized and [00:31:00] prepared than to try to memorize it and not be that. So you got to weigh, what are you losing by memorizing it? If you are anything, if you’re great and you can memorize it, go for it. That and then just practice, even if you can’t afford a focus group or doing one of your friends or join a network, go to your kids things and start talking to people.
I think it’s really interesting. Hey, I have this case or hey, this issue came up in one of my friends cases, blame it on your friend. So they’ll be more honest if you’re trying to see if there’s any criticism about it, but just do something. So you practice. Somehow, get up and practice,
Elizabeth Larrick: but I’m going to say, I think one of the things probably is easiest to do is literally just stand and say it out loud, video yourself,
Deborah Hensley Lowe: put your little camera on a tripod and walk around and pretend you’re doing that.
I hate watching video of myself, but I’ve learned [00:32:00] so much by doing it. It’s just, you’re always like, Oh my God, because you’re yourself’s worst critic. I think. Even if you don’t have money to do focus groups or whatever, do your own or do it with your family, friends, or video yourself and watch it yourself or send it to a few of your friends.
Maybe they’re not in town.
Eliabeth Larrick: I would say one, one, one thing I would caution people on is Don’t use social media as a place to practice jury selection. You really want to have, if you’re really going to practice with live people, make it live. Even if like us getting on zoom today, everybody knows how to use zoom now, you can get somebody on zoom easily just to have, just say a couple of questions out loud, role play it that way.
Yes. The other huge tip I think that sometimes we all get so busy and forget is, you know, It is so helpful to have a second pair of eyes and jury selection. [00:33:00] Not do it alone. And I love coming to watch you do jury selection and helping and watching, but it’s like you you’re up there doing your thing.
You’re trying to follow the tech, follow the outline and follow up where you can. I, we have a great group here in Austin where if anyone’s going as far as a list of trial lawyers, if somebody wants a pair of eyes, you just say, Hey, I’m going, can you come up and just be a second set of eyes for me?
Deborah Hensley Lowe: Like, absolutely.
And I’ve done that for people and they’ve done it for me. You bring your staff or maybe an old client. Even I’ve even thought of that. I have an old client who was like, yeah, I’ll do that for you anytime. And so you need somebody to take notes because you literally don’t have time. Oh, miss Jones. What did you say?
She’s writing notes. What did you say? So I’m, I’m like pretending I’m writing notes. You don’t have time to do that. You have time to put an X or check by their name maybe. And that’s it. And like maybe a C for lawyer talk for cause. And that’s about it. And then you don’t have time to remember what [00:34:00] cause it was.
So you gotta have some, you gotta have one lawyer at least taking down the notes for cause. And then you can have, I like to have two other people who are just regular people, just non lawyers. So they can catch the non lawyer stuff. And so that’s what I have, at least three people, lawyer, one lawyer, you got to have one other lawyer, right?
And your cause strikes down. And then maybe two other people who are non lawyers, staff, friends, family, whatever, because they got to watch the body language. Because I put one guy on a jury that I would have normally taken off. He’d been a defendant. He’d been sued. But he was a pretty young 20 something.
And I had a 20 something and she was, have your client watch and take notes. She was watching him and she goes, no, he was smiling at me. And he ended up, we needed one guy on the juror to talk about property damage and speed and all this stuff. And we left him on and he was really helpful, but I would have taken him off because of the other questions, but she was watching the body language.
So it’s really important [00:35:00] to have some people that are there to watch body language. for cause. And if you’re other people will help yo feel embarrassed, but get embarrassed. I’m not gonna job in my first trial. So been there, right? So don
mentor or colleague come and help you just because you’re sort of embarrassed how that might go. We all sort of feel that way, but you know, you just got to get past that. That’s the first thing you got to get past. Other people are going to see you. Maybe you’re better than, maybe you’re worse than them.
Go watch some trials. I love to watch trials because You think, well, God, I can do that if they did that, I can do better than that. And so you’d be surprised you’re not going to be that bad if you’re worried about being that bad.
Elizabeth Larrick: And that’s why we encourage practicing. It doesn’t matter how many years you’ve been a lawyer, how many trials you’ve [00:36:00] done.
I worked with Mr. Keenan and we had a whole team always watching. Every jury selection and taking notes for all, you know, to help with that. Ultimately the selection or deselection part of it. So everybody needs to have at least one other set of eyes. And the other thing that I love to do when I help somebody or watch for somebody is I like to write down.
Key phrases that I know you’re going to want to use in your closing, or that you’re going to want to ask all of your, all your witnesses, because then it really shows like you were paying attention during,
Deborah Hensley Lowe: during, that’s true. Because if you remember what they said, well, just like your number, whatever said in Fort ire, this is whatever.
So you tie it into your closing and that’s great.
Eliabeth Larrick: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, they just, if they know that you’re listening, which is super important. So I, especially if
Deborah Hensley Lowe: they made it to your jury and they said something in voir dire, that’s a check plus leave that in without pandering, right? [00:37:00] Without pandering and making it corny.
Yeah. Don’t go to the corny thing or don’t say the cheesy thing. Right. Yeah. Don’t go to the cheesy thing.
Eliabeth Larrick: Awesome. Well, Debra, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And hopefully what we can have you back to do some talk about some other virtual. Folks groups or other stuff. So thank you so much.
Anybody wants to get ahold of Debra, we’re going to put her email and contact information in the show notes. Otherwise, everybody, thank you so much for listening. Please rate, review the show. And also, if you think this would be helpful, share it with other travelers that you know. All right.