Challenges in Preparing Clients in Wrongful Death Cases with Danny Ellis
In today’s episode, we’re joined by Danny Ellis who was named Tennessee Trial Lawyer of the Year for 2021. We discuss the different challenges that trial lawyers face when preparing clients in a wrongful death case. Danny also walks us through some of the things he did to help prepare a recent combative client in her specific case as well as some tips on how we can be better in particular cases like this.
Based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Danny practices with Truck Wreck Justice, with offices in Chattanooga, Seattle, and LA. They specialize in all commercial motor vehicles that are 10,001 pounds or more.
Not every client is going to fit into a perfect formula for preparing them. And sometimes, you just have to be flexible. One of the best ways we can help people in these lawsuits is by giving them the ability to do the best they can do and helping them get the closure they need, which is better than any pile of money.
In this episode, you will hear:
- The difficulties jurors face in wrongful death cases
- The difficulties clients face in wrongful death cases
- How Danny helped a difficult client in a wrongful death case
- Tips in dealing with difficult clients and helping in witness prep
- The power of silence
- The importance of getting into the mindset of the opponent
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Supporting Resources:
Danny Ellis
Truck Wreck Justice PLLC
1419 Market Street
Chattanooga, TN 37402
(v) 423-265-2020
Do you have a question or comment? A topic you want to be addressed? Please email elizabeth@larricklawfirm.com.
Episode Credits:
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Danny Ozment.
He helps thought leaders, influencers, executives, HR professionals, recruiters, lawyers, realtors, bloggers, coaches, and authors create, launch, and produce podcasts that grow their business and impact the world.
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Episode Transcript:
Elizabeth Larrick: [00:00:00] In this episode, we have a great interview with one of my dear friends, Danny Ellis, where we’re going to discuss the challenges that you face when you’re preparing your client in a wrongful death case and also talk about a specific case that Danny had recently. We had some challenges with a particular client and some tips on how we can be better in particular cases like this.
So join us. Welcome to Trial Lawyer Prep. What if you could hang out with trial lawyers and jury consultants? Ask them about connecting with clients and juries more effectively, then take strategies, tactics, and insights to increase your success. Each week, Elizabeth Larrick takes an in depth look at how to regain touch with the everyday world, understand the emotional burden of your clients and juries, and use focus groups in this process.
Elizabeth is an experienced trial lawyer, consultant, and founder of Larrick Law Firm in Austin, Texas. Her goal is to help you connect with juries and [00:01:00] clients in order to improve your abilities in the courtroom. Now, here’s Elizabeth. Hello and welcome. I am super excited for this episode of trial lawyer prep.
We have a wonderful guest with us. Danny Ellis. Danny is a really good friend of mine. I’ve known him for several years. We met probably four or five, six, seven years ago at a seminar. Danny was a speaker talking about car wrecks. And I was a speaker talking about Probably witness prep. So anyhow, I’m excited to have him on this episode.
We are going to talk about preparing clients in a wrongful death case. And we’re going to use specifically one of the cases Danny has had with a challenging client to walk through some of the things that he did to help prepare the client in her specific case. So awesome. But Danny, let’s jump back for a second and introduce yourself.
Just let us know where you practice and any specialties that you have. Well, thank you, Elizabeth, and thank you for letting me. Be a part of your podcast. I have really enjoyed listening to your podcast so far [00:02:00] enjoyed listening to silence It was awesome. A lot of good reminders there on on what to do and we’ll probably Hint and touch on those today as well.
Now, you know, I live in chattanooga, tennessee I practice with the law firm truck wreck justice We have offices in Chattanooga, Seattle, and LA, and that is our specialty. We do all commercial motor vehicles. If it’s 10, 001 pounds or more, that’s what we do, be it a truck or trailer, a bus, box truck, anything with a gross motor vehicle weight of over 10, 000 pounds, we will take a look at it.
My boss is a former president and chair of the TBI section of the AAJ, and so we look at a lot of those kind of cases as well. Awesome. Well, I think you’re kind of missing a really big part of your what I’ll call your resume, which is you got a pretty big award last year. So why don’t you tell everybody what was that big award that you got?
Well, I’m very humbled. I was named the Tennessee Tribal [00:03:00] Lawyer of the Year for 2021. I have to tell you, I feel like Barry Bonds, there should be an asterisk by my award because it was in the COVID years and there wasn’t very many trials going on, but however, I was very blessed and very fortunate to help a very deserving family in a wrongful death case in Tennessee, in which we did some pretty good and ingenious ways to get a case into a venue that helped us tremendously and, and helped our client change their life and, and to hold a wrongdoer accountable.
to the full extent, not just what the Tennessee legislature said was the value of a life, but what truly was the value of a life. Well, awesome. Well, don’t man, that’s a huge deal. I mean, lawyers vote on that and talk about it. So that’s a huge deal. And I mean, you got to celebrate the wins, but sometimes we’re really hard on ourselves and you work really hard.
I know that you do. And so I’m really proud of you for that award. And sometimes you just got to toot your own horn. So thanks for talking about that. Well, you’re very kind and you and I both have a [00:04:00] mentor that would say The sorry dog that doesn’t wag his own tail from time to time. I just have a hard time doing it It just doesn’t feel right for me.
So That’s all right. Well, I’ll do it for you then we’ll do it for you. So, okay So let’s jump in appreciate the introduction. Let’s jump in and kind of talk a little bit about the difficulties When we approach wrongful death cases from a juror perspective, what is it that we hear? What is it you hear when it comes to these wrongful death cases?
It’s funny you should say that because I just got done Yesterday mediating a case in a wrongful death setting over here in Tennessee Involving parents and the very first thing and I think it goes across the board in the focus groups that we’ve run Is people will say number one the money doesn’t bring the person back.
What good does this do? You That’s always an underlying sentiment. And then in the situation with a spouse or with a parent and a child, people become offended. You’re trying to make money off of [00:05:00] the death of your kid. You weren’t gonna stay with that person. You would have adores them 10 years down the road.
You’re just trying to get rich off of an unfortunate situation. So that’s always something that we have to be leery of. And then, you know, especially in a marriage situation, people are going to start looking at that relationship with under a microscope, trying to find all the flaws. So that, that, those are the biggest ones that I’ve seen.
What, what have you found? Yeah. I mean, I think you’re kind of hitting the main ones that I had, you know, money won’t replace the person, some of a caught blood money. And I think sometimes jurors face, It’s an unimaginable situation. They just don’t want to put themselves in those shoes. And so it’s hard for them to put their arms around something.
And when you have that kind of difficulty generally just shuts them down. Right. So they just default to the no position. This was just fluke accident. This would never happen to me kind of a situation. So, I mean, I think those are really some of the main difficulties. that jurors [00:06:00] have when it comes to, you know, making decisions on wrongful death cases.
It is, and as difficult as it is from trying to overcome those obstacles with a juror, I think one of the biggest things that we as counselors In the law, and we don’t use that word much anymore, but with the victims of these heinous acts, these negligent acts, the family is left feeling very conflicted.
I know, having concluded that case yesterday with a family with a very young man that died at 21, way too early in life. You know, we we had to walk through getting ready for that and the emotions attached with that. And then with it being done, what do we do here? And very pointedly emphasizing this is not blood money.
This is, you know, we can do good things with this money and that person’s name. And I think [00:07:00] that as as attorneys, we need to look at that aspect of it as well, not just because it will help you in your witness prep. If you start thinking about those things down the road. Absolutely. And that was, I mean, that was kind of my next, like, you know, we have the difficulties with jurors, but our clients, right?
I mean, one, this is a heavily, heavily emotional burden that our clients are going through and transmitting that into testifying, but also working in this system that basically the system we have provides money. That’s the way system that we’re in and still doesn’t feel we still feels like blood money.
So let’s You know, you really hit the hammer on the nail with preparing clients for that inevitable, there will be money at the end of the day and there will be good things that come out of it. And so let’s talk about what are some of the things resistance, I guess, or difficulties that clients have in wrongful death cases, either giving testimony or just working through the process of the civil justice system.
Well, number one, I think people don’t [00:08:00] like kind of like me don’t want to talk about themselves. And that’s from the word go. People don’t want to talk about themselves, but they really don’t want to talk about the private things behind the door, the very personal things. And I’m not talking, I’m not talking the sex and I’m talking about the meaningful things that make the relationship that’s private to them.
There’s a public persona. There’s things that people are together. And then there’s also what happens behind closed doors that make that relationship even more special. It’s just your time. And people, when we’re talking to clients and trying to get into that, there’s a resistance because they feel In one sense, hey, this is mine.
I don’t want to share that. And then two, they feel like it’s a betrayal of the partner that that was their special moment, special bond. People will love to tell you, Oh yeah, Elizabeth, she was great. She was my best friend. We would do X, Y, Z. You being a [00:09:00] newlywed, I’m sure you and your husband have things that are just for y’all.
And you don’t want to say, Hey, he would rub my feet every night. And when he would do it, he would sing to me, you know, some BG song or so I don’t know. These are really good ideas. Keep putting them into this audio podcast. I’ll make him listen to it. But, but, but those are the intimate things that we don’t want to share.
They’re ours. They’re my own special. remembrance that it’s not for anybody else. You know, that’s an iconic scene in Avengers, and I am a nerd, you know that, and in Avengers the Endgame, where Captain America is sitting on the bench. He’s 70 years old. You see the ring on his finger, you know, he’s gone back in time and he’s married agent carter.
And I believe it’s the falcon says, hey, you want to tell me about that girl? And he’s like, no, these are mine. This is just for me. And so that’s the key. That’s the lock box [00:10:00] that you have to, I don’t want to say pick, but you’ve got to massage it and work it and allow them to open it up to share with you because it makes the story so much more fuller and richer as to what that relationship was.
Absolutely. I mean, there’s definitely big trust, big, big, big trust issue. You know, they really have to trust you and know that because it’s precious to them. like this is, you know, this is all they have left. It’s precious cargo that they want to keep to themselves. Absolutely. And I think a lot of it in this happens in other cases, too, is just that fear of judgment.
You know, there’s a lot of fear of judgment. If I tell you about this, you’re going to judge me and talking to a lawyer and a deposition who doesn’t know, you can really feel like they’re judging you. So judging this person, this person that you loved, and now all of a sudden their relationship is going to be judged and this person and what they did will be judged.
And we’re told a lot in movies, TVs, books, things we read and experience like that [00:11:00] last memory is like what you’re going to be stuck with. And. Sometimes that’s the terrifying phone call people get. And it’s like, we have to help them get past that. Like that is what society may say, but that doesn’t have to be what’s true for you, you know, and let’s make this lasting legacy be what you tell the jury.
That is the legacy you get to create for them. And I think helping that empowerment, that trust, there’s a purpose for this. This is not just to, make you experience grief all over again. Totally agree with that. You know, when we were talking earlier, that’s just getting them to open up to you. The last thing that they want to do is to take those precious memories and give them to the black cats, the defense, the people that are going to take those memories and try to sully them.
They’re worried that they’re going to take what, something that’s sacred and special to them and make it crass and make it a joke or a meme or, or whatever. And so, you know, you’ve got two hurdles when you handle cases like this. [00:12:00] One, getting the trust for them to open up with you. And then two, giving them the confidence to know that you’re not going to misuse it.
And by golly, you’re sure as heck not going to let the Blackhats of the world misuse it. That there’s a purpose and a mission behind putting it out there. Absolutely. And I also feel like as far as one of the other difficulties clients face with testimony like this is it’s hard to find the words.
feelings sometimes are really hard to identify. I mean, they’re sad. What more, you know what I mean? Like, what more can I say to you other than I am sad? It’s like, well, let’s, you know, we got, you know, help, ever help everybody explain that. So I think it’s one, most people who are in this experience, it’s brand new to them.
They’ve not lost somebody this close to them before. And so that grief experience is just, it’s someplace they’ve never been. And so identifying feelings and thoughts and that, like what’s going on is [00:13:00] difficult. And sometimes it’s almost a little bit like we got to help them understand their grief in order for them to be able to talk about it.
So I think that also kind of goes back to, we just think it’s going to be like what we see in movies and TVs, if we’ve never experienced a loss of somebody that close to us. So definitely a lot of extra hurdles. Uh, I would say other than cases where and, you know, I don’t want to compare atrocity to atrocity, you know, but just a few extra hurdles here, I think, mainly because we just have this.
unimaginable event that they exchanged in this money, you know, it’s wrongful death. Yeah. So well, let’s turn and talk a little bit about that specific case that I kind of had in mind. You and I actually touched base and we talked about your specific client, Victoria. You gave me a call, I guess it’s been a couple months ago, like, you know, oh gosh, I’ve got this, what I would call difficult preparation situation.
So tell us a little bit about you in mind, just give a little fact [00:14:00] backup. So we kind of understand the case and then, a little bit about Victoria. Sure. So Victoria was middle aged lady from the Midwest, lived in the Midwest. I won’t say where was married to a gentleman. We’ll call him Larry and Larry was a tough guy.
But Larry was Larry. When you say when you hear people say he was her world. That’s an understatement here. Larry was this lady’s tether and lifeline and bridge to the real world. I know your husband as well as you, Rod. I know that. Larry took it to the uptenth degree. He would drive, he would, it just, it’s amazing.
He did everything. Housework, clean, cook, get her out in public. how to intermingle with friends, but more importantly, he protected her because Victoria was a really broken individual [00:15:00] when they got married. And he was, he was the salve. He was the plaster that put her back together so that she could once again, just function in society.
And then when he died, every bad thing that ever happened before came crashing back down again and she was, she was a broken and shattered person. So I called you because you know, I’ve done this for a while. You know, I, not that you’ve asked me to do this again, folks, if you ever need somebody to witness prep, this is the woman, right?
So what you didn’t, what you didn’t tell everybody is when we first met, you’re up there looking brilliant about witness prep. And I’m up there talking about my latest loss because I screwed up an opening and didn’t focus group a case and thought I knew everything. So, you know, let’s just put everything into perspective, but I knew I needed to call you because I had a very difficult task ahead because my client who [00:16:00] was Had all these these issues.
I mean, we’re talking about getting a room in a deposition. She didn’t want to get a room with me And I know that sounds crazy because I said she’s my client But I was you know, I worked for truck wreck justice and I did not originally start with this case I got brought in because i’ve been fortunate to know you as a friend and under your tutelage with witness prep And I was asked to come in to prepare this lady For her deposition and it was all we could do to just get her in the room with me.
What kind of resistance? I mean, I think one of the things you said that when we were on our phone call originally was she was kind of combative. Tell us a little bit about kind of what that meant. What were some of the things she was doing? So this lady is about five foot one and maybe soaking wet weighed a hundred pounds.
That is not an exaggeration. That is for real. But let me tell you, I think this woman could whip my butt. She was that mean and that tough. And that was something that was extremely [00:17:00] important for down the road. We’ll put a pin in that to come back to it. But you know, when I say combative, I would say something like, Hey, let’s talk about, and she’d be like, F you.
I’m not talking to you about Jack’s butt. Or we would approach the issue with, with her about doing the prep. And it was a fight. And then once we got into the room, then I was worried about, you know, she’s going to cold cock defense counsel. I mean, I was really worried about that, but let me say this. I was also worried about a string of profanities that would make a sailor blush during questioning.
And I realized, you know, that’s who she is. If that’s what comes out and that’s her expression, she can hurt feelings. About her husband. Why am I trying to make her into something that she’s not and you helped me see that But you also gave me great tips on how to just get her to talk to me Okay. Well, let’s walk through this because I don’t remember.
I’m not [00:18:00] So one of the things that you and I talked about was don’t make your first meeting about witness prep So we went out to the home and city of Victoria and also met with her and her daughter, who was also part of the case, but we had a couple of conversations with him just sitting down. And so what I did is I sat down and said, Hey, look, you don’t know me from Adam.
You know, I’ve not been I’ve not been here. Your co counsel brought us on I know he’s talked to you about me. I don’t know why you trust him either So let’s just you and I sit down and let’s start talking and I just we’re just trying to have a conversation Just a normal everyday conversation But one of the things that I I started trying to put in there was lady.
If I don’t live up to what I’m telling you or if I’m telling you something and I’m not, my actions are speaking something different called me on. But I want you to judge me not just by my words [00:19:00] and what you’re hearing, but by me. And so, you know, I made the comment early on. I was very interested in her and what was going on.
And towards the end of the case, she’s like, I just want you to know you were that you cared about us. You cared about me. And it’s not just this case, Elizabeth, you know this. Every one of our clients, they become a part of our lives. You know, they become family. And that’s, that’s critical to do what we do in these hard, excruciating situations where we take on the problems of everybody else.
The word is empathy. You’ve got to be empathetic. And, you know, I think that’s one of those things that you can learn, but there’s just some people that it’s a natural talent. Like you, you’re like the most empathetic person I know. You know, I think I always try to back people up. It’s a skill. Thank you.
Being empathetic is a skill, just like listening well, just like [00:20:00] making good deposition questions, just like making somebody comfortable. I mean, it’s a, it’s a skill, but I mean, I will say, you know, I remember having this conversation and just knowing, like, you have a real natural gift. of making people super comfortable.
Like you put people off very quickly. And so, you know, when I remember when I was having this conversation thinking, gosh, like use your skill. I mean, you’ve got this amazing skill of putting people really at ease and not going too far because sometimes what ends up happening is we go in to have a conversation with our client, it’s not a conversation.
It’s me talking the whole time and the client maybe says yes or no, or gives a small explanation. And that’s another one of those things where it’s like, you really have to have a conversation, ask a question, get an answer. It’s really kind of, you know, really has to be a true conversation instead of what most people experience, which is I’m going to come in and tell you how bad I feel for you.
We’re [00:21:00] going to go to this deposition. You’re going to be fine. So, you know, that’s why it’s like, We got to build that trust from the very beginning. And this Victoria just didn’t trust anybody. It didn’t matter if you were Mother Teresa walking in there trying to help her get ready. She, you know, so it wouldn’t have mattered.
But that’s why I think we talk about sometimes it’s just. meeting somebody where they are and accepting them for where they are. And I think you went in there one with that attitude inside, like I’m not here to change you. I just, let’s have a conversation. I think that significantly helps people who, who are in that state of mind.
Well, it was crazy. We were out there like, I think an entire week and the deposition didn’t happen to like the very end of the week. Right. So if I remember correctly, I had the first day’s conversation with you. And I called you up and said, Okay, I think I know how this person takes a little bit more.
This is what I’m getting. This is what I heard. Tell me. [00:22:00] And you were very gracious to say, Yeah, you’re either on or you I mean, you you gave me great direction. And so I think one of the keys to helping in witness prep. Is you’ve got to step into the shoes of your client and try to get into their headspace To kind of figure out where things are going and how they are viewing things And how they’re viewing the legal process and how they’re viewing their own feelings in the legal process And how their feelings are about you so you can help them along that journey.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that’s part of the one of the things that I always like to do when i’m getting ready to prepare anybody is I just take a good long look at just What they look like on paper? How old are they? What’s their education? How long are they married? Do they have kids? Like, what job have they been in?
Like, have they been in the military? Like, just to get an idea, like, okay, where’s their experience so far? And what have we experienced with them? Do they do everything we ask? Do we have to ask a couple times? Are they having to jog? Do they struggle to make, you know what I mean? Like, just so we can go [00:23:00] in there and understand a little bit more and then have that good conversation with them to listen and be like, okay, half that battle is just listening to what they give back to you and really taking a good long look at it to know like, aha, okay, That’s what’s important to them.
Giving good testimony is not important to the client. That sounds like a lawyer thing, right? So what’s most important to them? So tell us a little bit more about what did you find to help, help Victoria in her prep that, that unlocked the box. Let me say this. It was another great piece of advice that you gave me was you need to sit down and have a long conversation with those closest to her.
So I did. I had long conversations before we started witness prep with the daughter, with her sister. I want to say there was one other person like I spent a ton of time on the phone with trying to just get this picture before I sat down with her. [00:24:00] And once I did that, and then I had my initial conversation, I had all the pieces now.
I didn’t have all the pieces. I had pieces of a puzzle that gave me a good image of who she was and where she was headed. So after that, after I felt like we had established a good rapport, day one of prep. And, you know, normally I follow a formula, you know, day one, we’re going to do this day two, we’re going to do this day three, and then we’re off and running.
No, it was day one, eight hours, just on a couple of issues. It wasn’t my normal day one. And it was fears, misconceptions, Guilt and self awareness and that actually bled over into a day too, but it was really interesting for her to I think she had this picture of herself that I thought was [00:25:00] inaccurate and we Explored it together and she realized hey, look, I’m actually acting the way people expect me to act I really am Pretty tough old bird, you know, and that way I told you earlier, I was like, I’m scared.
She’d whip my butt. She was, she, she, she was, you know, we, we went through all of their past traumas, all of her life experiences. We talked about how she overcame those and how she would use those to overcome this latest. And she just got empowered and moved forward. It was really, really awesome. One of the really cool things that you said that I think a lot of people don’t appreciate is like, not every client is going to fit into this perfect formula that we have to prepare them.
And sometimes you just have to really have that flexibility to know like, okay, I know what my goals are in getting this person prepared. It’s not going to fit this normal framework, but I’m going to be flexible with it because one, it’s working like [00:26:00] listening and it’s working. And also she’s getting empowered.
So that was, Very keen on making sure, hey, what is my end goal instead of feeling like if I don’t hit these targets, if we’re not following this framework, it’s just not going to happen. Well, you know, and you’re absolutely right. And I think one of the biggest things that we as confidants, as counselors, have to keep in mind, if our client is not 100 percent prepared, We have an obligation and a duty to protect them from walking into a situation where they’re going to get slaughtered And whether you get a motion to compel and you got to pay the fees and the thing That’s part of doing business But your sole commitment has got to be to that client to make sure they’re 100 percent prepared To go in and do battle and part of that is you can’t just say okay We’ve done this and we’ve done this and just because you follow formula doesn’t mean if you’re not if you’re not doing it Right, Doesn’t matter.
Right. True. Yeah. So, and I think one of the things that spending that time on the front end with her, [00:27:00] right, spending that one whole day, that eight hours just walking through like her fears and that, like, did that translate into making things go much easier down the road when you guys were actually working on organizing testimony and doing things like that?
So, it was a hundred percent well worth the foundation. Because once we got through that and we got her to see that, hey, this is this misconception is a misconception. There is no fear here. Hey, this issue here is a solidified. This is how I deal with this fear. Hey, myself. Not that I’m wondering, but I’m a rock.
I can handle this. You know, it’s okay for me to break down a little bit and show my feelings and it’s okay for me to have a little righteous in the nation because dad, now that you killed my, he killed my husband, he killed my life. And that made the next part where we started going into the, the truths and how to deflect the attacks and to, And to defend herself and to be empowered to say, I am, you know, it became a crusade for her.[00:28:00]
It wasn’t, um, it wasn’t a crusade of, I’m defending myself. It was, I’m giving you a crusade of how awesome my husband was. I’m giving you a crusade to tell you how crappy you people are by taking him because you didn’t care about safety. It was so just empowering. And when I first met this, nice lady, she would shrink.
She was like five foot one and when we talk, I think I told you she’d shrink down like four eleven. It was amazing to see a six foot one man, midwestern man, male attorney, go from six one to five six by this little lady just beating him down. It was phenomenal. Phenomenal. And he walked out, he was, he was shaken from the deposition.
That’s my question, what was the impact of her testimony on this case? So one of the big issues that we had, I mean, it was a horrible case. Her husband burned to death. Okay. Lived afterwards, but they really thought that they [00:29:00] were going to make a lot of hay on her because of her background. And they thought that they could solely him with some of the Elizabeth, I know you have find this hard to believe, but if anybody opened the closet door into my life, they would find skeletons that I would be ashamed of.
And they thought that they were going to really do a number on her and her husband by opening up that closet door and dragging those things out. And let me tell you, that was a huge mistake because she was ready for it. Uh, she had her major truth in, in connection with that. And she would take that question that was meant to the little.
denigrate her husband or belittle and denigrate her and she would show how they overcame that or how they Learned from that and how that made them who they are my favorite episode of the whole thing People get really nervous when they go into a deposition and they can’t remember things that are really critical.
And so she and I spent a long time together writing down [00:30:00] the things that made him special to her. I mean, we had, I’m telling you, we had three sheets of notebook paper and we told her, Hey, look, this is, you know, her truth was he was special to me because, and then she had all these bricks. And this guy’s been trying to, you know, go into drug use of her husband and stuff.
And she’s like, look, man, he, he, yeah, she’s like, she owned it. She’s like, yeah, he either smoking pot and that’s why he lost his CDL license, but he got better. He, he, he threw it aside because driving meant so much to him. He didn’t touch it again. And he had a CDL and in fact, he became so good at what he was doing.
He was teaching other people how to be safe drivers. Why couldn’t you people do that? Why couldn’t you teach this guy how to be a safe driver? It was anyway, she was great. She like turned it on him, but this guy thinks he’s going to be cute. And, and, and, you know, you see it all the time. Well, is that all is it?
And so he’s like, well, what made him so special? And I’ll never forget it. Co counsel was like, well, I have something prepared for her and he throws [00:31:00] it, he gives it to her and she just looks at co counsel like I don’t need this. And she takes the piece of paper, I kid you not, she crumples it up and she says, let me tell you, I miss the man and this is what I miss.
And she just went off. And when she crumpled up that piece of paper and look that guy in the eye and said, I missed the man. And this is what, this is about the man that I miss and just started rapid fire. She got done. He went, I am done. He stopped right there. I am done. And that was maybe 40 minutes into her deposition.
And he had a huge thick list of questions. He was like, I missed the man. Boom. And I think he realized if I stay in this too much longer, I may lose a client because she’s kicking my rear end all over this room. So, I mean, as far [00:32:00] as her basically flipping the script on, right, being the complete opposite of what they expected, did that help the case get settled quicker?
Do you feel like it helped the value of the case? It did. We went into mediation. And this is where it helps we had this attorney until this deposition happened and then Lo and behold after this deposition they went and got an expert to come in and try to Clean up the other guy’s mess. And even then, you know, that was the white flag when they brought in the other guy to help this one guy who was a local guy.
And it was because of her, it was because of her, they knew what had happened. So they, they brought in a closer to close the deal at mediation. What they did. Awesome. I think one of the biggest things that we can help people in this situation, in these lawsuits is giving them the ability to do the best they can do.
It’s a terrible situation, but they have a job. And did you feel like she felt like this is the best I I did the best I could for Larry and, and I left it all on the [00:33:00] table? She, she did. And what’s more, I, this is, this was the. Best part for me, this is very selfish, but we got done and she said, I feel like, you know, Larry, now it’s probably best compliment you could get and I was, and I did, I was, I mean, it was all I can do not to break down and cry now we cried a lot together.
Don’t get me wrong. But when she said that, that was huge. That’s, that’s, I mean, You gave her closure, which is better than any pile of money, you know, and the ability to, to stand up for herself. So that’s awesome. Any other kind of side notes or thoughts or, you know, what I was thinking, like looking at this particular prep and this particular person, what were the top three things you’d recommend for people who were kind of in the same situation where you’ve got, maybe you’ve got a combative person and it’s wrongful death case.
So number one, call Elizabeth Larrick. Um, number two, I, I really, and you, and [00:34:00] again, you helped me with this, Death, Dying, and Grief by Larry Platt. I read that, reread it, read it again, just over, over, over, over. And I think the last one I would say is Silence. Silence was extremely powerful in this prep because the client wanted to run and hide and I would just sit there.
And she would look at me, she’d be like, she would say things like, what the F are you not going to say anything? And I would just, I just look at her and I would wait and I would wait. And then the. the motion would come out and we would move on. And so there’s a lot of times that I would just use silence to make her process to make her think about what was on the table.
And she would use that after a while it became a prod for her to know that she needed to go deeper. You know, there’s a lot of cut. There was a lot of cussing at me on the front end, but I just had to endure. I had to endure [00:35:00] in silence, you know, our, our natural tendency is to rush in and fill that gap.
And I knew, you know, you and I talked about this, you know, I knew that that was going to be critical because she of who she was and where she was emotionally, that that was going to be critical. critical for her to break through to get to the feelings and to get to the truth to tell us really about her husband.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s such a hard thing to do to give someone space, silence, but it’s also one of the most powerful tools that we have with people. I mean, just in general, you know, but I think sometimes we forget as lawyers, like, oh yeah, There is so much power in being comfortable with silence, because again, one of the things that you gave her was you, even in that silence, you are giving her your attention.
And you’re saying like, I’m here, I’m here for you, there’s, I’m not going to give you any verbal pressure here, we’re just gonna, just whenever you’re ready. I’m here. So the, the last thing I would say is, you know, I spent a lot of time trying to get into the head of the other [00:36:00] side where they’re gonna come at or how they’re gonna do it.
I just got done, you know what? I’m the dean of the, the deposition college at KTI, and, and we just got done having a course yesterday, and I jumped on and I, you know, I, I want to give these students the idea, you cannot underestimate. The importance of trying to get into this the mindset of your opponent And so I spent a lot of time going into the prep of this looking at their answer looking at their discovery Sitting in my office role playing it back and forth with myself.
I set up two chairs I would ask myself a question. I would move i’d get up move to the other side of the chair answer it out loud and and ruminate on and switch sides and ruminate on that answer to see if that was true or if I felt like it was true and if that was true how do we approach that and so you know and then you put it into a memo format because you don’t want to miss it you don’t want to forget it because yeah I’m getting older I’m getting older and I forget things so there you go [00:37:00] no you can’t I mean that that’s such a helpful exercise for getting ready for depositions and for client depositions trying to be able to anticipate.
where they’re coming at. So absolutely. Well, awesome. Well, Danny, thank you so much for joining us in this episode. You have given us lots of wonderful things to think about, and I appreciate jumping on having this conversation about wrongful death cases and how to help clients do better in their testimony.
Well, thank you for letting me have this platform and just for your friendship. If people don’t know you, they need to get to know you because you are truly one of the gems out there. And you will transform their practice just getting to work with you. Very nice of you to say and I always 100 percent appreciate our friendship and I always call Danny when I’m like, I’ve got this depo.
How do I do this? So awesome, especially on my trucking cases for sure. So well, thank you again, Danny. I appreciate it. We will put your contact information in the show notes. If you have any questions for Danny, I know he’s always able and willing and wants to help people. So, all right. [00:38:00] Thanks. Until next time.