This episode join Elizabeth Larrick as she explores the decision-making process of whether to settle a case or proceed to a jury trial. This episode provides trial lawyers with actionable insights into evaluating jury trials by examining recent verdicts and settlements and leveraging the experience of attorneys familiar with key players in the case. Elizabeth shares how focus groups composed of non-lawyers can offer valuable perspectives, helping to understand jurors’ mindsets.
Look into trial preparation and risk assessment, focusing on the importance of evaluating evidence from a juror’s viewpoint. Elizabeth discusses the strategic use of focus groups in refining opening statements and provides a comprehensive view of weighing the risks and rewards of settling versus going to trial.
In this episode, you will hear:
Decision-making between settling a case and going to a jury trial
Importance of researching recent verdicts, settlements, and consulting experienced attorneys.
Utilizing focus groups to understand jurors’ perspectives and attitudes.
Trial preparation, risk assessment, and evaluating evidence from a juror’s viewpoint.
Assessing trial costs, time commitments, and potential outcomes to guide clients effectively.
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Supporting Resources:
Want to learn to set-up our own virtual focus groups? Check out my on-demand course here.
This course will only be offered until December 2, 2024.
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Join Elizabeth Larrick as she explores the transformative power of virtual focus groups for trial lawyers. In this episode, Elizabeth discusses her course, “DIY Virtual Focus Groups for Beginners,” designed to equip trial lawyers with the skills to run their own focus groups. Elizabeth shares her experience of how these methods have enhanced her practice by providing crucial jury insights and improving case decisions. The course offers practical tools, including recorded Zoom sessions, a detailed workbook, and a supportive community, addressing common challenges like recruitment, presentation, and moderation.
Elizabeth emphasizes the importance of integrating feedback into legal case preparations, aiming for clarity and simplicity in jury communication. Discover how running your own focus groups can refine your presentation strategies, connect more effectively with juries and clients, and enhance your overall courtroom success.
In this episode, you will hear:
Introduction to DIY Virtual Focus Groups for trial lawyers
Strategies for recruitment, presentation, and moderation in focus groups
Importance of integrating feedback for effective jury communication
Benefits of running personal focus groups for case preparation
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Episode Transcript
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m glad you’re here today. This episode is going to be a bit different from my normal style. I am going to be sharing information about my on demand course, DIY virtual focus groups for beginners. I’ve talked quite a bit about virtual focus groups on this podcast.
That’s not normal. Even if you’re just now joining me, you may have probably heard some other episodes That were in the feed or that you saw before episode 19, episode 20, episode 80, and a great interview with Clint Schumacher on DIY Focus Groups. All those links will actually be in the show notes if you want to go back and take a look at those.
What I found though is that it was a little bit of a piecemeal information and I get a lot of questions in my email inbox about running virtual focus groups and several pitfalls that people may run into. And so I decided that I could create a course to help folks that are out there either getting started, they’re interested in it, or maybe they’re running them at their own office right now and they’re just getting stuck.
But before I did that, I went out and I looked at what resources right now are available for lawyers, specifically, that gives them a full picture on creating virtual focus groups, not just the recruiting piece, but also the presentation piece and the moderating, which can be really challenging for us because sometimes it turns into cross exam.
And knowing that the importance of running your own virtual focus groups, having that information To make decisions in your case is really key. That’s how I was able to run my law firm. I learned how to do them and put that into practice very quickly to help me make decisions because I didn’t have a lot of resources.
So I wanted to make sure that I could maximize my cases that I had with the basically the resources I had to put into them. And I just really didn’t want to pick the wrong case to go to trial on and possibly lose or make the wrong decision about investing in a case that really wasn’t going to get very far with the jury.
And I believe every lawyer should have access to jury research, no matter where you are, because it really helps overall with running your law firm, making good decisions and having a lot of confidence and assurance in what you’re doing when sometimes it feels like you’re just operating in a vacuum.
There are not very many other resources that we can Really used to get feedback about what other people jurors actually people were making decisions about the cases think right. We can talk to their lawyers. That’s nice. That experience is good. But if you ever been a trial, you know, it’s never going to go exactly as somebody else’s trial has gone.
And so you just want to make sure that you’re testing that. So. I looked at my process and again, I looked back at what people were asking me. I ran several webinars back as well in March and February to help kind of give some information to see where things were needing, where people were lacking. And I even asked again, did other polls to make, ask lawyers.
And what I found was, Or what I’ve created was a live three sessions, zoom sessions where everybody could come in and ask questions and go through the material together. There’s so much material that I created a workbook to go along with everything. And of course you record everything. Which is now what this episode is about the on demand version of that course.
It’s still all the great information about the very actionable steps that you can take along with options. I know that my way is not the highway. There are lots of ways that folks run focus groups. And so I tried to provide those options as well for you along with, you know, really an overview with timelines that you can look at and thinking through the ability.
to delegate to staff members. And so I really encourage lawyers and their staff to join our meetings that we had back in May. Again, that’s exactly what this episode is about. That on demand course that is now available until December 1st. and access will be available all the way through the end of 2024.
And what I’ve also done is because it’s so vital for us to be able to ask questions and get information is I’ve also scheduled an Ask Me Anything on December 2nd so that we can get together and you can pick my brain and I can ask you questions as well about how things are going. And also the platform that is hosting the course allows for a lot of community interaction, a lot of posting.
And that I feel like is always really helpful when you’re doing something new and you have questions and lawyers are really good about questions. You immediately can go there, post a question and get an answer. Okay. So that’s really, I think a helpful part of it as well. And what can you really gain from taking this course?
Well, number one, DIY do it yourself, virtual focus groups, right? Get in yourself, literally those step by step actions to get over that starting place where you’re thinking, how do I get started? And naturally that’s going to save costs and that’s going to make it really convenient for you and. Your office to get answers on questions.
But really, what is gained is confidence and certainty in the evidence that you have and assurance that you have been able to flip those negative facts into either positive positive or even just neutralize them. Really be able to issue spot things that you can’t see as a lawyer, right? We’ve always got some blind spots, especially when we are really invested in a case.
It’s hard to see the other point of view and that’s where focus groups are so awesome at seeing things that we can’t. themes, being able to really look at those facts and targeting concerned areas with these one hour, two hour, even three hour virtual focus groups and getting the clarity that you want, right, to make decisions about cases.
And here recently, right, I had a lawyer who perfectly summarized it. He said, I’m so relieved because. You give this presentation and hearing their feedback that we don’t have to go into a trial and really educate people about something so boring as our case. And it’s like, yes, it is so much simpler than what we make it to be, right?
We tend to complicate things because we have so much information and facts. And really that’s where a focus group, even a short focus group can help you see the simplicity of the case without any complication. And of folks that have taken this course, right? I mean, you know, one of the reviews that I’ve gotten is that, you know, it’s the course has information about gathering people and have forms for different types of focus groups that are available and even interpreting the information, which is kind of critical, right?
We want to make sure that we interpret things correctly. So. All of that is packaged right into three on demand videos and three workbooks that go with that. And the workbooks just kind of accentuate, meaning they’re going to give you more information than what is in the video, but you can go in there and play the videos that you need.
Again, having you and staff be able to have access to those so everybody’s on the same page. And then again, that December 2nd Ask Me Anything, so everybody can come in and get their questions answered. It was definitely one of the highlights of the live version that we had in May, because there is just so much information in there, and sometimes, you know, it’s hard to necessarily connect to it.
everything. Plus, there’s always generally a nuanced question that folks have about maybe their particular practice area or how do you focus group this topic or this problem, right? So that’s always a great question to ask as well. So if you’re interested in learning more about the on demand course, head over to ElizabethLarrick.
com slash on demand course Focus groups, long link. I understand it’ll be in the show notes. So if you’re driving or walking, just know, check those show notes later to find that link. And plus, if you are just not sure if making, doing your own virtual system for jury research is what you’d like to do, then go back to those episodes I mentioned before, 19, 20, 80.
Again, the links will be in the show notes to see, you know, is this something that I want to do? And, um, You know, I encourage folks that it is much simpler than you think to get it started. And it’s, of course, it feels simple to me because I’ve been doing it for years, but I want every lawyer who is practicing in this space, plan of personal injury, employment law, business litigation, to have a tool to help them make decisions to, and also educate their client.
You know, that’s one of those things that sometimes we have clients that are really fixated on Certain facts and certain pieces of their damages, which maybe just don’t hit the jury the same way, right? And it’s hard for them to understand that until they actually see it. And that’s just one of the benefits that you have is.
You can run one of these focus groups right when you need it with the perfect amount of time that you need with an efficient cost and get that answer and then be able to move forward in the case. So many times what I see people do is really hesitate. when it comes to getting information to move a case forward.
And the hesitation could be there’s other cases going on or well that mediation got moved so I’ll just, I’ll just wait to do that later. That’s not a pressing thing that I need information on. I’ll just move it down. Right? You reprioritizing things based on trial dates and expert depositions, and mediations.
Here’s where that becomes a huge problem. That’s really underestimating the amount of amazing information and perspective you will get from a virtual focus group. And you will want to marinate on that information because initial blush may be You want to, you know, run to the bathroom, Ralph, because it’s all terrible information.
But once you really need to digest it to be able to see, Oh, okay, wait a second. Let me get a little bit deeper here on what they’re saying and really try to integrate this into the case earlier than waiting. LLC. Many a times what happens is at first blush, it sounds like they really they’re putting your case in the garbage pan, right?
Like they don’t like it. It sounds like they’re creating more problems for you than not. But most of the time, if you sit with it, go back over it. And this is where that interpretation comes from. You realize I can answer all of these questions, but wow, I need to make that really clear. up front and how do I do that now with, with what I have left, right?
Like maybe it’s the mediation presentation. Maybe it’s these expert depositions that I need to get those questions in up front and very clear so that it’s the jury has those answers. They’re not sitting there wondering about these things. And again, the longer we can marinate on this feedback, the more we can integrate it into our cases and make them better.
Even if at the end of the day, it’s going to be a settlement. That’s okay. Because most of the decision makers on our cases fit more into the Drupal than they do, than they do on our side of things, right? They’ve got very few of things, but having a little bit of clarity and simplicity fits everybody because our brains love that that is persuasive.
And that’s a huge piece of what you can get from running your own purchase groups. Okay. Well, that’s it. I hope that this episode, although different than the normal ones, was helpful and maybe if you’re not ready yet, that’s okay. This is still a good place to maybe peruse the page. Look at the information and see like, okay, listen to the other episodes.
Maybe this is, maybe this isn’t, but just know that that is available for you until December 1st. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
In this episode, Elizabeth explores innovative and cost-effective strategies for trial preparation that go beyond traditional mock juries. Designed with solo practitioners and small law firms in mind, this episode examines techniques like focus groups that can provide valuable insights without the high costs. Learn how attorneys like Ryan Squires and Peter Levine successfully used virtual focus groups to refine their trial strategies, leading to significant verdicts and settlements. Gain actionable tips to enhance your courtroom skills and connect more effectively with juries.
In this episode, you will hear:
Exploring cost-effective alternatives to mock juries for trial preparation
Benefits and insights of using focus groups, both in-person and virtual
Overcoming traditional trial prep challenges for solo practitioners and small firms
Practical tips for conducting short, targeted focus groups
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Supporting Resources:
Want to get in-depth insight straight to your inbox? Join the Trial Lawyer Prep Newsletter at www.larricklawfirm.com/connect to get a specially crafted email once a month from Elizabeth that gives lawyers extra resources, tips and information on preparing the best case.
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Episode Transcript
Hello and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m glad you’re here and joining me today.
This episode, we are going to talk about a common misconception That I hear when I talk with lawyers and we’re thinking about trial prep and what to do and where to go to learn about jurors attitudes, case themes, you know, who are the good jurors demographically, who are the not good jurors demographically.
And what I always get back is that it’s a mock jury. But this is really kind of the only way that you’re going to be able to learn what you need to learn. To do your trial prep correctly and listen that is not the only way and I want to put together this episode because I know if That’s very much a traditional thought, right?
We’ve learned it from somebody else. It’s been passed down, right? And mock juries are really cool. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve done them. They’re great. But if that’s the only way we think about trial prep, that really starts to exclude a lot of people because they’re so expensive and time consuming. And I can tell you like right here as a solo running my own law firm, thinking of doing a mock jury on my own, like there’s no way I couldn’t afford to do that on any of my cases.
And lo and behold, right, working with other folks and starting to do focus groups on my own, you know, just started to do it. This is what I had available to me. So that’s what I did. Now, when I doing my consulting work and talking with lawyers now for several years, I still keep hearing kind of this, not that it’s a roadblock, but that it is the only way.
Right. Oh, we’re going to do a trial. Oh, we’re doing a mock jury. And so that’s really what this episode is about is, hey, we’ve got alternatives here and why would we need alternatives? Well, again, like I said, number one, thinking about mock jury as the only way to do your trial prep really knocks a lot of people out just based on time consumption.
And money, right? The resource. And that’s because, I mean, traditionally a mock jury is where you’re going to run the full case. So that’s one, a lot of time consumption in putting tech together. So a lot of people, they’re going to have. you know, openings, they’re going to have video evidence, sometimes even live people come and play or read the depositions and you’re gonna have closings, you know, jury instructions.
So it really is the full case and then you watch the deliberations. And so there’s a big resource in, you know, location, videographer, your staff, right. And just helping put these things together. Plus being there, not to mention your, your taxing in the sense time tax in that it’s, you know, You’ve got to put together all these things, all the openings, think about it, get, get extra lawyers to come play all these things.
And so ultimately, it is very clunky when it comes to putting it together and it’s like a whole project management. And it’s really hard to get some qualitative information on specific issues that may be concerning you. Because what you end up getting with a mock jury is you watch deliberations and you get that kind of verdict, right?
And there may be like a debrief and sometimes there is where basically after they finish deliberating, which you’re watching and then you have somebody go in and start, hey, let me ask some questions and just try to get information out of them. They really can’t give you a lot of clear information because they’ve been there all day.
They’ve consumed so much new information. They really probably can’t give you specifics. more than they’ve already talked about in deliberation. So you, you kind of lose out on some of those real sticking points that maybe you wanted to know about or pieces of evidence or, or witnesses, right? So you’re really getting very much a high level, what I call yes, no, right.
You’re getting that verdict where, how they came up with that. Yes, you watch deliberations, but I’m sure if you’ve done one of these, you’re You have the same concern I have, which is like one person is going to nominate right or which what I’ve also seen is where instead of actually like. thinking through and putting together something thoughtful.
They just vote and they just divide and do math and they just move on, right? They’re done. So it’s very hard sometimes to figure out what people are really thinking about the issues because they just kind of do an aggregation of their thoughts instead of actually like kind of debating it like you would think the deliberations go.
So. The other thing is too, once you finish these things, usually you’re spent, right? You’re, you’re exhausted. You’ve got to really move on to doing trial things, motions and liminees and answer all those emails and the judge and you really only have time to do one of these. So you don’t even have comparison information after you get this.
Generally you get, you know, kind of a really large report. You’re not gonna be wrong, like there are definitely, you know, votes along the way and other things to kind of look and test along the way, but again, without having a little bit of a, like a stop in discussion, people just lose it, right? They can’t hold all that information in their brain, then regurgitate it later on in deliberations or rather in the discussion debrief.
So, you know, mock jury, it’s great, but it can be really clunky and, and very traditional. So let’s talk about two alternatives. And number one is the short in person focus group. And when I say short, we’re talking two hours, three hours, maybe four hours max. And why I say that is because thinking through four hours, you’re going to have a couple of breaks, but you’re going to try to get people in and out of there without having to do a meal.
And again, that’s just trying to think through expenses. We’re going to have to get a location. We’re going to have to get a videographer. We’re still going to have this a little bit of an expense to get a neutral location and a place with enough bathrooms. All those things, you know, to make sure participants want to show up and they’re not coming to your office and already having a biased thought about, Hmm, I’m in a lawyer’s office.
I wonder if this is their case, right? Of course, they’re going to assume it’s your case. So the other reason why thinking through these short, like, two hour, three hour in person is in person is still going to allow you the opportunity to practice your presentation style, getting on your feet, practicing that tone, that cadence, It’s the movement, right?
How it works with your PowerPoint. A lot of people really love that piece of a mock jury. It gets them. They put the suit on, you get on your feet and you’re looking people in the eye and you’re delivering the information. Super important, right? That really helps you with practice. That’s why I say one alternative is these short in person focus groups.
And with the shorter version, though, you can really Specifically do pieces of the trial, right? So you can really practice jury selection and you can practice an opening statement. Maybe you skip the jury selection and just do an opening statement and some witness videos. But you’re allowing them to really absorb one piece, get the feedback on that piece, and really jump in and understand what’s behind, right, their reactions or their attitudes and following up to get that information right there, what’s on the top of their brain.
And then moving to the next piece, right? So think about a two hour, you want to do what deer for an hour and you, then you want to run an opening statement. Great. Like you’re going to be able to do that in a way where you’re going to be able to then go back. Well, and you’re getting on your feet, you’re practicing, you’re listening, you’re doing all the good things that what do your requires of us.
And then you’re going to do your opening statement and you’re going to have somebody else get up and do that discussion piece, but you’re going to get the feedback. That you need to hear on those specific issues without crowding more information into their brains. On top of that, and again, thinking if you added an hour, do three hours, right?
So adding in a defense opening here. So there’s a lot of flexibility when we look at just focusing on specific pieces of trial to get you ready and to get that immediate feedback. What also allows you to do is to repeat it, right? Maybe you want to redo your opening or you want to change some things based on what you heard and test it again.
Well, you have the ability, cause these again are shorter. They’re going to be a little more cost effective, but they’re still going to give you that in person presentation style that you want to practice. And then you’re again, going to have this extra data to be able to build more of a data set versus just doing one mock jury.
And again, like I said, it’s much less burdensome on the planning, the putting it together, the time and the money resources. Plus, like I said, you’re getting more qualitative information about specifics that you may have concerns about versus overcrowding them with lots of information and just getting that high level, yes or no, what percentage of responsibility.
Now, you’re still going to get answers to those questions. Like even if you didn’t want them to give it to you, that’s generally what they’re going to do anyhow. So you’re going to get that information, But you’re going to get what’s behind it in a much different format versus watching them deliberate, right?
You’re going to have that moderator asking questions, following up, really digging into the responses that you’re getting. Now, the other alternative, which if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you knew it was already coming, which is short virtual focus groups, because I think that these are so helpful in allowing.
Nearly every lawyer going to trial access to jury research because we are conserving even more money and time by doing these things virtually, there’s no travel, no location fees, no videographers, Right. And everybody just tunes in on their computer. You run everything, share the screen. And again, we’re talking about the same kind of targeted presentations, jury selection, opening statements, Witness videos, it’s the same materials, the materials aren’t really going to change, you’re going to dial them back, right?
If you’re just going to do a one hour focus group, you’ve got to pick your pony. Which one are you going to do? Are you going to practice? And are you going to really then focus in on the target issue or the big worry that you have? Maybe it’s liability, so it’s going to be an opening statement based on liability.
Maybe it’s damages. But you’re really still doing trial prep because you’re taking all the information in, you’re organizing it, and you’re going to put some advocacy in it. You’re going to put it in a sequence. You’re going to try to be persuasive with the information, just like you would in a mock jury, right?
So we’re not losing out on that trial prep aspect, just by having it being one or two hours and on virtual. And again, We’re going to do the same kind of moderating. We’re going to get that instant feedback, that simple feedback, that discussion to help you learn more about your opening statement, your concern areas.
And then you can easily repeat it, make those changes, come back, do a longer one. You’re going to get a comparison of data based on, you know, being able to run these virtuals more often than doing in person. And Again, because of the flexibility of these short focus groups, you can start doing them, right, much earlier than 30 days before trial.
And you would want to do that because then you’re going to get more information and be able to integrate things and be, be much more ready for trial if it does happen. If you start a little further out and that’s kind of where these.
And again, even the better part here is you can do these things on your own. I will put a link to the show notes for our focus group, DIY episodes. So that you can do these without needing a consultant, right? Sometimes they make our lives easier, but sometimes we can’t afford them. That’s totally fine.
Listen, I didn’t ever hire a consultant when I did my own focus groups. I took the CLEs or took the classes. I went to the seminars to learn how to do these things so that I could do them on my own and I know that you are the same way. I know that you are the same way. That’s why you’re here, right? You want to learn the skills and do it on your own and that’s totally respectable.
We all have businesses that we need to run. We got to be very cost conscious in what we’re doing for our clients. And again, if you’re a personal injury, you’ve got a big risk here and you want to make sure that. You’re taking the right risks and that’s where focus groups help you make those decisions.
So two main examples I want to talk about here before we conclude this episode. Number one is attorney Ryan Squires. He did an episode with me, 35. It’ll be linked in the show notes where he talked about. His big verdict that he got, but what he did to prepare at the time it was in 2021 and so we just, all we had were virtual focus groups at the time that the trial was also going to be virtual.
So they did three virtual focus groups and in every focus group, they did opening statements. That’s all they did. And they were months out from trial, but what he explains in my interview is he had so much confidence. and felt so prepared because that opening was steel tight. I mean, they had dialed in their visuals, their PowerPoint based on what people were saying and being able to convey that in such a clear, simple way.
And they had a complicated case. It was a 20 year history between family members with hundreds and hundreds of emails about moving money and fiduciaries and investing. And so it was easy to get complicated and bogged down and overwhelm the jury with too many facts. And I think that’s why they came and they said, we’ve done it.
This is all we want to do. We just want to do opening statements. We want to get this dialed in and surefire. It was very well dialed in, you know, other things happened at trial, but they ended up getting a 40 million verdict in that particular case. The other example that I have is a lawyer that I work with.
In California, his name is Peter Levine, and he likes to build the focus groups. And again, they’re always still for trial prep, though, you know, we’re not, you know, things aren’t going to get started churning doing focus groups very seriously until we’re, you know, four or five months out. And then he’s kind of building, doing these one hour, two hours, three hours, and building on the information as we get it and continuing to test everything until, you know, we’re Again, we’re coming down to the last two or three and doing opening statements to make sure.
Right? We’ve gathered the information. We’ve listened to what the focus groups have said before, but also right, giving it back to make sure and test everything and, you know, having good success doing that as well, that the couple of times that we have worked together the past five years, mostly we’re med mals, but also all kinds of other cases as well that basically really end up turning up where the, they settled in the middle of trial or set it right before trial, but giving them the confidence to know what jurors were thinking.
So they can make that decision about settlement. So here’s the bottom line. You are not stuck with mock juries. Okay. It is not the only way to do trial preparation. And again, that thought that, uh, mock jury. Okay. But it’s so expensive. Like that forces so many lawyers out of just not doing them all together.
Right. Oh, this case isn’t worth it. Right. Now that’s an easy way to say, like, I’m not doing any jury research. I’m just guessing. So. Again, let’s go back. We’ve got two alternatives here. We’ve got our short in person focus groups and we’ve got our virtual focus groups. Because here’s what you need. You’re coming down to the wire.
You’ve had this case, you know all the facts, and it’s coming to the time of trial. We’ve got to make a lot of hard decisions about evidence and order of proof and final settlement offers. And what you really need is digestible feedback in short bursts, efficient with your time and your money that’s effective on the issues that are keeping you up and worrying you the most.
And it’s repeatable. Right? You can go back and repeat it and test it to really gain confidence and assurance that your case, when you give it over to the jury, is going to be the winning case. And that’s what we need, right? We have to give it over. Jurors are the ones that make decisions. So don’t walk in blind, right?
You’re not left out in the cold here if you don’t have money for a mock jury or a large data survey or, you know, one of the other large jury research products that are running around there. So I hope that this episode was helpful. I hope that you, you know, look at some alternatives and again, cool thing about virtual and even in person, you can set those up as well on your own.
The shorter versions make it easier and digestible for you and your staff to be able to put them together. So. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you did, I’m going to ask you to join the trial lawyer prep newsletter using the website that is listed in the show notes, www. laricklawfirm. com slash connect.
I send out an email just once a month, trial tips, strategies, extra resources. It’s really more of an in depth place where I put my thoughts on the same topics that we discuss here in the podcast. Okay, until next time, thank you so much. Oops, I meant to mention before we close out this episode right now in this month, I am doing a special offer to my email list.
For the on demand DIY virtual focus groups for beginners. However, I’m only giving it to the email list. So be sure and go to that website to fill out the form and get yourself on the email list for the emails that are going out this month. And you’ll get the added bonus for being on the email list. www.larricklawfirm. com/connect.
In this podcast episode, host Elizabeth Larrick provides guidance for individuals new to virtual jury research, focusing on starting with opening statement focus groups. Drawing on her experience working with lawyers and conducting virtual focus groups, Elizabeth explains how running a 20-30 minute opening statement session can simplify trial preparation and produce valuable feedback. She highlights the benefits of using virtual focus groups to understand case themes, address specific legal challenges, and improve trial outcomes, citing a $44 million verdict and a $22 million verdict as examples. Elizabeth encourages listeners to join her email list to access an upcoming on-demand course for virtual focus groups.
00:00 Introduction to Virtual Jury Research
01:44 Defining Virtual Jury Research
03:03 Starting with the Opening Statement
04:36 Benefits of Using Opening Statements
06:40 Gathering Feedback and Adjusting
09:53 Real-World Success Stories
12:38 Conclusion and Next Steps
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Episode Transcript
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m glad you’re joining me today. This episode is going to be for folks who are new to doing virtual jury research, or maybe you’ve tried it out once or twice and you’re kind of unsure of what would be the next step in growing your virtual jury research knowledge.
And so today’s episode is about the easiest place to start if you’re new to virtual jury research. And I wanted to provide this episode because working with lawyers, running my own virtual jury research, I have found sometimes the biggest hurdle is knowing where I can start that’s easy and simple. And so in watching folks do focus groups and helping people run focus groups and mock juries, The easiest place we can start is a place that we know, which is the opening statement.
And I want to take just a quick moment here to clarify, what do I mean when I say virtual jury research? And There are so many options available now online and what I am talking about is when you put together a kind of small group of 8 to 10 to 12 individuals to come together on Zoom or whatever online platform you are using for a few hours.
Maybe it’s 1, 2, 3 hours, maybe it’s even 4 hours. And you’re going to moderate that group yourself, or maybe have somebody else moderate it in your office. And you’re going to really ask questions and get what I would consider qualitative, right? A lot more understanding what’s in their brains about their responses versus what could be compared to data surveys, where there’s going to be hundreds of folks who look at the evidence.
Maybe they listen to something and then they give feedback and you end up getting kind of a large data report. So this is the virtual jury research, which I normally talk about as focus groups, where again, we’re taking a smaller group of people and we’re really talking to them about their thoughts and kind of watching them discuss and deliberate in front of us with guidance through moderation.
And I believe that the solution to getting started if you’ve not done a virtual focus group is to run an opening statement. of 20 to 30 minutes. And again, let me just make sure that we’re coming in on the right and thing, which is most of the time when we come to a virtual focus group or coming to virtual jury research, we are stuck.
We’re having a problem in the case. Maybe we’ve got some challenging liability. We’ve got a, he said, she said, and The opposing counsel is being very obstinate about their point of view and their facts, right? So there’s kind of an impasse. Maybe there’s hard to value damages where it’s a unique set of damages, or maybe there’s some pre existing that makes it a little challenging for causation.
And of course, sometimes we have the other bucket that we hear sometimes about witness credibility and, you know, how is this. Person going to come off to a jury. And so why I believe that an opening statement helps you do this would be that you would create an opening statement that’s around this particular problem, right?
So it’s 20 to 30 minutes. We’re not going to run the whole enchilada here. We’re just going to do maybe the one taco plane. Okay. And that just means we’re going to tackle one issue. Maybe it’s just liability. And this is a very familiar. Virtual focus group that we run and I suggest to people who are new to coming to my focus groups and they’re going to do, you know, their own material.
And the number one reason why is we know how to do this, right? We’re lawyers. We’ve been talking about opening statements. Even if you’ve never done a trial, which is not unusual, by the way, you’re not alone in that camp. Like there’s a lot of talk. There are a lot of books. There’s a lot of guidance.
There’s a lot of examples that you can find. And so this is something that it’s not Something we have to go create that may be difficult for us. For example, when a lawyer tries to put together a neutral narrative, it can be challenging because we are invested. We feel very strongly about our side of the case, so being neutral and creating this neutral narrative can be difficult.
Also other things like cutting deposition clips and just creating a presentation that way, or even visuals, timelines, things that are not necessarily directly in our wheelhouse as lawyers, litigating lawyers. And so that’s why start where we know, which is writing an opening statement. And the other main reason why this is an easy place to start is because we have to do this really no matter what.
we are or where we are for trial preparation, we’re going to have to do an opening statement. And this step of sitting down and making yourself do a 20 to 30 minute opening statement on something very specific. Like I said, liability. Maybe it’s causation really makes you organize your thoughts, put it down, pen to paper.
We talk about that a lot, how important it is to, even at the first pass to write it out because it really gets things on the paper, out of your brain. And then you can really look at cutting things out. Remember 20, 30 minutes really makes us regulate how much information we can give, but also you’re going to put things in your case themes.
You’re going to organize that evidence in the way that you feel strongest about it, which is a great task to do. But also again, that then leads us to our third reason to do an opening statement as your place to start with a virtual focus group. Because it is so easy to understand the feedback, right?
You’re going to get uncomplicated, straightforward feedback about your case, your problem, and your award winning statement. Your case themes, like your evidence, if you think that’s the strongest, right? And so you’re really able to make this process easy on yourself by using the chat, right? So when we run an opening statement virtual focus group, the first 20 to 30 minutes of Is the opening statement and then the group answers very simple questions, like yes, no questions in the chat.
And then you begin the discussion where you just have a very open question. What do you think? And you get everybody’s feedback. And then of course the ponies are out of the gate at this point, right? And they’re all influencing self and it’s easy then to continue to ask questions though about what was confusing.
We heard a piece about how this person said it was a red light, but the other person said it was a green light. What do you all think? Or we heard that the main person who was injured was a passenger and they weren’t paying attention to what was right. Is that a problem? Okay, so there’s lots of easy ways to ask direct questions about your problems and get that feedback.
And of course, you know, the main question that we normally always have as lawyers is what am I missing? Where are the blind spots and what facts do you want to hear or know about that would help you make a decision? And so again, really simple set up one. We know, right? We write opening statements. We’re already organizing things in our brain about where we think the strongest themes are strongest claims and our evidence.
And then this just makes us put pen to paper and really organize it and again make the cut here. We’re going to have lots of information more than that fits in 30 minutes. Making you sit down and squeeze it into that 20 30 minutes really makes you analyze what is the best. and how to sequence it. And then of course, we want to start in a easy place that we can understand what feedback we’re getting.
It’s uncomplicated. Okay. And that’s why I love suggesting that lawyers who are new or lawyers who have maybe tried virtual focus groups and they want to take it to the next step, or they’re not really unsure what would be the next focus group to do an opening statement focus group, virtual focus group.
Um, is an excellent place to get started and feel successful. And that’s the thing too, is doing an opening statement leans into where we naturally are in a case. It leans into our advocacy. It’s okay to be an advocate in this situation. And of course, the flip on that is just make sure that a different person is asking questions, right?
Especially You know, it’s very hard to kind of flip faces in a focus group where you’re being a total advocate and then you flip to try to be neutral and ask questions. Just have somebody else come in and ask the questions. And again, you could write the questions out for your staff to basically just ask the questions and nothing else.
And still you’d be able to get that easy feedback. Understand, you know, did my theme hit or did not hit? Was this the best evidence or do they want to see something else? And, you know, the two main examples that I have are, you know, in the very beginning of the pandemic had a case here in Austin that was going to be one of the first virtual and so got together and really looked at, you know, How can we make this complicated case about a fiduciary duty simple?
And so they were very streamlined. The lawyers wanted to do just opening statements and we did three virtual focus groups just with opening statements. And by the time the case got to trial, they were actually able to do in person. However, they felt really strongly, very comfortable, very confident that their opening statement was basically going to nail the case down clearly.
Quickly and simply, and there’s no way that the defense would ever be able to come back. I think that’s absolutely true. They end up getting a 44 million dollar verdict in that case. And additionally, recently, and this will be upcoming on the podcast soon, my guest spot with Michelle Gessner talking about her case against Wells Fargo, where she again used virtual focus groups.
And using her opening statement, many, you know, over and over again, at least I think four or five times. Again, just tweaking it. And again, that’s another follow up with an easy, the next easiest one to do is to tweak that opening and come back, but her redoing her opening statement, uh, many times, and she talks about this in our episode together about how it really helped her one, understand her fame and her evidence, but allowed her to pivot.
Because she had done it so many times, she knew where the jury was, but she was able to pivot if she’d gotten objections, which of course she did in her opening statement. Uh, but that case turned out in a 22 million verdict. So, you know, the proof is in the pudding. This is the easiest one, but that doesn’t mean that you’re not going to get the best outcomes.
You are going to get simple, understandable feedback here. So, Here is the theme, which is it doesn’t have to be complicated. We tend to overcomplicate things as lawyers, but I really, you know, the strive in this focus group to make. I strive in this podcast to make it easy and simple to encourage you to start using virtual focus groups.
You think about this as jury research to help you make decisions in your case, get the feedback that’s clear and understandable to really help and ease your trial preparation burden earlier than that 30 day mark before and get some significant help so you can sleep better at night. Right. And that’s where this opening statement focus group comes in to really get your brain to organize everything, put it on paper, and then be able to feel confident in moving forward.
So I hope that this easy place to start our opening statement virtual focus groups will help you get started if you haven’t, or give you an idea for your next virtual focus group in a case that may be stumping you. All right. Thank you again so much for tuning in. I want to encourage everybody who is listening to join the email list.
The link will be in the show notes and specifically because right now I am going to be launching my on demand course for do it yourself virtual focus group, but I’m only launching it to my email list. And because I love my email list and my loyal I’m Folks over there, there’s going to be a bonus that is just going to be exclusive to the email list.
So check the show notes. It is www. larricklawfirm. com slash connect. If you are not able to check those show notes, get signed up and then you will learn very shortly about what is happening with that on demand course. All right. Thank you so much.
Depositions can be a big drag on case expenses! This episode is here to expand your toolkit and improve your legal practice with our guest, Karl Seelbach, co-founder of Skribe.
Learn how Karl is transforming the legal field with Skribe, a tool to host virtual depositions and easily manage video depositions. Hear about the challenges that led to Skribe’s creation and how it is addressing common pain points like shortage of court reporters, high costs, and delays. Explore the evolving landscape of legal depositions and the features of Skribe’s AI-powered tools. Karl discusses the benefits and limitations of remote depositions, the issue of stenographer shortages, and how Skribe’s software offers a practical alternative.
In this episode, you will hear:
Skribe’s creation to address deposition challenges
The benefits of remote depositions
The impact of AI-powered tools on deposition management
Advice for integrating technology in legal practices
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The newsletter is the place Elizabeth share’s tips and strategies, PLUS exclusive offers.
Episode Credits
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Check out the Video
Episode Transcript
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast trial lawyer prep. I am your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I am excited for my guest today. He is making history in this podcast today. He is coming in as a defense lawyer, but let me tell you y’all, he has a very [00:01:00] clever and amazingly helpful tool.
He’s going to talk to us about so, but before we jump in, I let me introduce my guest, Karl Seelbach. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Karl: Well, thank you very much, Elizabeth, for having me on. And I really like how you set the bar very low for me by introducing me as a personal injury defense lawyer. Probably has strong opinions, or at least maybe low expectations for for this episode.
So to go but up from here.
Elizabeth: Well, that’s true. Although, you know, that’s how we met. So we met doing a case against one another. And it’s been a Several years. I think you were with a different firm and you guys went out on your own and that’s awesome. And then now you’ve created this other really cool product that we’re going to talk about, but I want to give you a little shot, a little time to kind of tell, tell us a little bit about yourself.
I know you’re in Austin, just like I am. So, you know, tell, tell the group a little bit about kind of what you do and what brought you to this podcast.
Karl: Yeah. So I haven’t always been [00:02:00] a personal injury defense attorney. I often joke that I’m actually a plaintiff’s lawyer trapped in a defense firm. I went to law school to be a plaintiff personal injury lawyer.
That’s kind of what I thought I wanted to do and what I kind of aspired to do. I grew up kind of surrounded by plaintiff personal injury attorneys. My dad does safety expert witness work, and I met a lot of trial lawyers growing up in Henderson, Texas, who I respected and still respect. And who that was kind of my first exposure to law.
So anyway, since then, Yeah, I went to law school, ultimately started at a big firm, Winstead, a big general purpose defense firm doing all sorts of things, everything from finance and banking litigation to appellate litigation, some types of litigation that I found extremely boring, and then finally got a taste of personal injury work on the defense side.
And I just kind of thought, yeah, this is really where I’m meant to be, like the personal injury field in general. And so started doing more and more personal injury [00:03:00] and decided with a good friend of mine named Trek Doyle after, uh, about, I guess, 7 or 8 years of working with him to launch our own firm, which we did in 2015 and we actually did a fair amount of plaintiff’s personal injury work, which I think I can say this in hindsight now.
Um, every defense lawyer I think would be very well served to do some plaintiff’s work. I really think you, you get a real respect and a little bit of education of what that side of the V has to go through. One of the main things that I took away from it is when you’re the plaintiff’s lawyer on the case, You’re not just the attorney on the case.
You are the plaintiff’s counselor. You’re helping facilitate medical treatment. You’re, you know, potentially helping them figure out how in the heck they’re going to make ends meet while at work and they have all these. So I think going through that process of handling those cases really helped me better understand some of the dynamics that perhaps some of your listeners, you know, have to [00:04:00] deal with on a, on a day to day case to case basis.
And then you decided I don’t want to do anymore. Well, I decided to, so it was kind of interesting the way it happened. And I, and I really do sometimes feel like a plaintiff’s lawyer trapped at my own defense firm. Cause you know, I’m one of the founders. We had a lot of prior relationships from being at Winstead and also a lot of hooks in the water with, large companies, insurance, as well as some insurance companies, third party administrators.
And when we started our firm at first, you know, some of those relationships weren’t turning into work, but there’s a lot of hooks in the water, so to speak. And eventually, one after the other, after the other started coming in with, Hey, we’d like to retain you to represent this company or we’d like you to defend this employer.
And I think it’s extremely difficult to kind of ride the fence and represent both injured plaintiffs and defendants. It’s not impossible. There are some firms that do it. They tend to be really small firms or maybe [00:05:00] solos. I think it’s really hard. And it just felt to me that we needed to pick one. And the one that for me was the best business fit was helping these employers in particular defend against a workplace injury claim.
So in Texas, as you know, And some of your listeners probably know as well. You don’t have to have workers comp. And if you make that trade off and you don’t have it, you expose your company to negligence claims in state court or federal court. And so we defend a lot of those household name companies, fortune 500 companies when they get sued on personal injury cases in Texas and go up against a lot of great lawyers.
Also great, but most of the ones we go up against, I have a ton of respect for and really enjoy working with cases with them.
Elizabeth: Awesome. I appreciate the background and letting us know. And you know, it is true that when I was interning during law school at a defense firm, like they had one person because you have to really seal everything off and only one person was was allowed to do any plaintiff’s personally to work everybody else to defense.
So [00:06:00] that makes sense. And again, you kind of got to, uh, Pick your poison and go with it, whether it be plaintiffs or defense work, but we’re here to talk about this other super cool tool that you’ve created. So tell us about Skribe and what it is.
Karl: Well, so I’ll tell you about the inspiration for it first. So I’ve taken and defended hundreds of depositions in my career.
And one of the things that a couple of takeaways from that one is you should video all of your depositions. And if you’re not, you’re doing yourself a disservice. You’re doing the case of disservice. The reasons for that are there’s a lot of good reasons for it. But one is video is the most powerful form of evidence in a case.
And I truly believe that not only do juries expect to see it, but I think judges actually enjoy seeing it. No one wants to see a witness or a fake witness, for example. And what I mean by that is someone just get up and read a deposition transcript because a witness isn’t available. So we’re literally reading questions and answers, which believe it or not still happens [00:07:00] versus playing the video of the actual witness.
So it really helps inform everything from Demand letters during the case as it’s going on to be able to put video clips in your demand to kind of bolster it on the defense side. You know, I use the video in reporting to my client. So, as I was handling all these depositions and videoing them, I was kind of like, I found myself in this problem of not having a really easy and simple way to create video clips and share those clips, whether I wanted to share it with the court or with my client or in a response letter to opposing counsel’s demand.
And so one of the inspirations for Skribe was making it super simple to create and share video evidence, primarily testimony or other forms of video evidence, body cam videos. Recorded statements, whatever it may be. So it’s one of the things that kind of inspired me to start Skribe was that problem. The other piece of it was, I started realizing just how much money my clients were spending [00:08:00] on depositions.
And. Particularly realize that pain point when I started doing plunge cases where I was the one fronting, you know, the bill, so to speak, and paying those court reporting fees and those videographer fees, and I thought to myself, kind of got to be a better way to do this, like, surely we can use technology to speed up and simplify and reduce the cost to take a deposition to capture legal testimony.
So that was the 2nd reason was really cost. And then the 3rd was. You know, I’d go sit in all these depositions and I’d find myself and my team is, you know, we’ve grown now, we’ve got 15 attorneys at my firm. I found this common problem of, okay, when was that deposition taken? Why don’t we have the transcript yet?
You know, where is the video? Like, why am I still having to track down things weeks or maybe sometimes a month or more later that I can then go through it and clip it or whatever I need to do with it? And, you know, I kind of thought to myself. Not only do I think we can [00:09:00] solve the cost problem, we ought to be able to serve up a copy of the record synced to a transcript the same day a deposition takes place.
I mean, there’s no reason with today’s software that we shouldn’t be able to do that. So those are the things that my own frustrations with the process that led to the founding of Skribe. I mean, so I know technically when it’s Skribe When did it come out of the closet? When did it officially launch?
Because that was another thing I was really curious about. Sure. Sure. So the company was founded about two years ago. The first year was a lot of discovery work, due diligence, development work. We actually launched the product itself and I’ll get into kind of what the product is and what it does in just a second last year.
So it’s been about a year to a year and a half. I don’t remember the exact date off the top of my head, but I guess it’s been a roughly 18 months since we launched the product. And so there’s 22 products. Currently with Skribe, we have Skribe live, which is for capturing live testimony, such as depositions.
And then we have Skribe [00:10:00] library, which is a way to upload any audio or video file you have in your case and get a transcript and be able to search it and clip it and easily share those clips. Thanks. So those are kind of the two sides to the house. They’re very complimentary. You know, anytime you take a live event, it ends up in your library.
But, but, you know, my firm uses it. We have, I think, at this point, over 200 firms that have used it. We’ve done over almost 1000 depositions over the last year and a half. So it’s, it’s beginning to take off. And it’s really cool to see some of the feedback that we get that kind of validates. The problem that I was experiencing and that people, you know, that it resonates that people are they’re tired of spending too much money.
They’re tired of waiting on a copy of the record. They’re realizing that there are really awesome things that that software and technology allow us to do, such as creating video clips just by highlighting text. Putting those clips and demand letters to make them more persuasive or briefs to make them more compelling.[00:11:00]
And that’s really just tip of the iceberg. We have some other really cool features that we just launched recently that we can talk about in a minute. But yeah, I mean, it’s kind of off to the races. I mean, it’s a lot of fun. Yeah, and the reason why I was because I knew it was after, you know, kind of the pandemic and and and lawyers having to every lawyer having to use zoom no matter what to do hearings and whatnot.
And like, I know that. Thinking through like adoption of technology and lawyers. It’s like oil and vinegar. It’s really, really, you got to force us to really do that. And so like, you know, the almost like, you know, precipitous timing of Skribe and how many people realizing like, wow. And then. Also the cost, right?
The court reporter costs, the videographer costs. And, and I just remember in the, like, right when, you know, we had the shutdown and I was on a representative on, on a group for Travis County trying to figure out how do we keep trials going and. You know, we had all these ideas and, and one of the things, you know, the court reporters were like, wait a second, what about [00:12:00] us?
Because, you know, eliminating that person to person, you know, really was a struggle for them. And of course, many of the ideas just really weren’t going to work for anybody. And luckily we did, you know, there was zoom trial, there was some zoom trials that came along after that. So, you know, you guys obviously.
200 folks and growing. And I think that’s amazing. I, you know, I loved that when I went to website and visited, like, you’ve got a lot of awesome resources, but I just, you know, having the twofold, having the library, because there are still a lot of folks who need that technology that took those depots before, right?
I mean, cases are so backlogged. They can upload that stuff, have it sink to cut those clips and make life so much easier when you’re getting ready for trial. And then obviously. starting your depots now with Skribe to make it easier for, you know, and cheaper to do that. So tell us a little bit about, I mean, you know, kind of talked about the problems it’s solving, you know, what’s the feedback you’re getting, you know, what, what’s the pushback that you get to?
Yeah. [00:13:00] So, Well, you hit on a couple of things that I’m going to come back to, but I’ll answer your question first. The pushback is really one that is more education related, and that’s the concept of not all attorneys realize that non stenographic depositions are permitted in most states, not all. In Texas, in federal court, in over 40 states, non stenographic depositions are permitted.
Most of them are by rule. There are some that require stipulation, but Texas federal court as well as, you know, I think it’s over 30. It’s permitted by the rules. So, you know, there’s an education components to this because sometimes the knee jerk reaction is what do you mean? You’re going to use. Skribes have record this through zoom and there’s not going to be a court reporter.
How does that work? And so we kind of have to explain here’s the legal rules and why it’s permissible. And we have material that we can share with and we do share with all of our customers on that that explained. It’s been around for a long time. It’s actually been around since the nineties and historically, if you think back to depositions being [00:14:00] recorded, either with an old school video camera only sometimes or over the phone, even, but it just hasn’t been utilized as much because, um, Again, pre covid these depositions were in person.
You kind of needed someone to either type it or set up video equipment to record it. Now we can use modern software and computers to do some of that for us. You know, the other piece of this is in addition to educating not only our customers, but sometimes the opposing counsel on why this is permitted.
We also have to educate them on well, how does it actually work? And so that’s where we get into. Look, this is not a problem. Generative AI. It’s not just making up words that it thinks someone said. We are video and audio recording the testimony. There is a certified notary supervising the entire process end to end.
There’s redundant recording to make sure that there’s A backup copy of all the audio and the video in case one of the recordings were to fail, which knock on wood hasn’t actually happened. But there’s [00:15:00] redundancy baked into the process. And then we’re using proven ASR automated speech recognition to generate the rough transcript that is available within about an hour to two of the deposition.
And then within five days that gets human proofread and verified and legally formatted so that. The same week, no rush fee, no extra cost. The same week, you actually get a accurate final transcript that looks just like the transcripts you’re used to seeing, but you can file with the court if you need it.
So I think a big part of it is education. The other piece of it is You touched on which was coded and kind of how that shifted the market. I don’t think we would be having this conversation if Covid had not happened because, you know, against the way we’re approaching this market is with a remote first approach for purposes of hosting live events.
And that’s what enables us to provide this solution to attorneys because everybody has a laptop in front [00:16:00] of them. We can isolate for the most part, the audio to each participant and we’re able to capture a quality recording that we can then generate a transcript off of and proofread that transcript.
So it’s, you know. There’s a lot of bad things that came with COVID for sure, but I do think that the legal industry as a whole has gotten a lot more efficient as a result of COVID. And I actually believe, and I think we’re seeing firsthand, that attorneys are more willing to try new things and adopt new technology as a result of COVID.
Now I will say, Not every single deposition in the entire legal industry is right for zoom. Not everyone maybe is right for non stenographic. There is a place for stenographers in our legal industry and there’s absolutely cases where in person depositions do make sense. We just believe that that’s in a minority of cases that the vast majority, 70 to 80%, maybe as high as 90 percent are just fine over zoom and that the benefits, the efficiencies that you get [00:17:00] far outweigh, you know, what people think they get from that in person experience.
Absolutely. And of course, you know, I think a lot of my focus groups are virtual. So I am totally with you on like, you know, sometimes there is a barrier to what this must be done in person. And it’s like, well, it doesn’t. And I mean, it’s, uh, you’ve been on the other side too, to know, like, yeah, if you want to go take the other driver and they’re in Austin to go for it.
But what about those experts that are in California and New York and Washington? It’s wow. You end up You know, paying for time, but then also just that travel and the extra stuff. And plus, I was going to say the other thing I think that was, is we just have a real big shortage of core reporters. Yeah.
Yeah. I actually talked to note to not forget to mention that you on the timing, the timing was important because of COVID. There also is a legitimate shortage of court reporters, and it’s getting worse, not better. Now, you know, the size of the shortage is probably [00:18:00] up for debate. You know, the N. C. R. A.
National Corporate Association had reported it to be, I think, 7 to 8000 short court reporters based on demand. You know, there’s been rumblings. Well, maybe that was overestimated. The point is, young people, people in their twenties and maybe thirties aren’t going to stenography school at the rate that they used to, even though the number of claims, the number of litigated files continues to go up.
So, you know, it is absolutely a classic supply and demand problem, and it’s only going to get worse, which means. We need alternative solutions, which is where a software driven solution like Skribe can help solve that and help provide a cost effective alternative to the market. And, you know, I think that the other thing that it brings that I see particularly as a business owner.
So if any of your listeners, you know, or law firm owners or kind of equity partners, you realize that this, that speed is important, right? That the faster you turn [00:19:00] cases At your firm, the more cases your team can handle. Now, obviously you want to do it with quality, right? You don’t want to just rush through it just to rush through it, but every delay adds up, right?
So if you’re waiting a month or three or four weeks just to get a copy of this transcript, or you have to pay double or triple to get it faster, that has a cumulative effect either in cost to get a rush copy or in time waiting on, you know, this you to get a copy of this transcript so that you can move on to whatever the next step is, whether it’s emotion, whether it’s the next deposition.
So I think, you know, the way we look at it, skribe is speed is not just important, it’s a requirement. And so we put that kind of at the top of what we do. And a lot of attorneys that have that have joined and not just the attorneys, the paralegals, the other legal support staff members, they appreciate that with skribe, they don’t have to wait.
They don’t have to ask where’s the transcript or when will I get this? You You get it the same [00:20:00] day. And so you’re able to quit. We had one attorney actually San Antonio personal injury attorney, a great lawyer. I’ve had cases against him. He took a deposition with Skribe in the morning of a witness and then had another one that afternoon.
Well, during the afternoon deposition, he used video clips that he created. from the morning deposition and the defense lawyers, their mind was blown. They were like, we don’t under like, how did you do that? How did you get it that fast? But, you know, literally that is possible with Skribe. You get it that fast that you could take a deposition in the morning and over the lunch break, you know, start to chop it up, process it.
And, and later that same day use clips from the deposition and the next one, you know, that may not be something you need to do all the time, but it’s nice to have that option. Well, sure. And I think, I mean, I’m imagining a disputed liability situation where it’s like, these are the two key witnesses and they’re going back to back.
And like, at the time you think, Ooh, great, we’re going to knock this all out. But then you don’t think, [00:21:00] Ooh, well, you know, how do I then like, really, if there’s a problem, you know, solve it with being able to show them, Hey, here’s what the other person said. And this obviously solves that problem. Being able to say, Hey, literally this is what they said, but like, watch the video.
This is how they said it, you know? Yes, how they said it. That’s exactly right. What’s the body language? What’s the tone? What’s the look on their face? I mean, those are things that are not only important for attorneys to know and understand. Those are important things for us to be able to convey to our clients to show our experts, you know, for what you do to show focus, right?
Skribe enables, and we’ve had some of our attorneys use it for this purpose. Historically, video was underutilized. Why? Well, it’s the frustration I was telling you about earlier. It’s because historically video has been a pain in the you know what to work with. Difficult to chop up unless you took the time and effort to train on some movie maker software or video editing software or [00:22:00] you had some, you know, computer nerd in your office who could chop it up for you or you outsourced it and paid someone else to do it.
All of which slows you down. And I think by making videos so simple to clip and share, like if you can, to your listeners, if you can highlight a PDF, you can create a video clip with Skribe. If you know how to copy and paste a website address, you can share that clip with Skribe. So it really is just super, super simple.
And the 1 thing that I, that I do want to emphasize that we haven’t talked about yet. Step one was making it easier to capture testimony, share the video clips, and we’ve done that, and we’re growing that, and that continues to be a big focus of ours. How can we do that better? Step two, though, is we want to help legal professionals analyze that testimony.
And so we just launched An AI powered chat and analysis tool where you can go into a deposition, whether you took it with Skribe or you took it with someone else and you just uploaded the video into your Skribe account. Either [00:23:00] way, you can then query that transcript and ask it any question you want to ask it.
What did the witness say about topic X? How did the witness perform? How do you think they play to a jury? Based on this testimony draft sample discovery that I should send to the other party on the following issues or what you think are the top five issues and the A. I. will analyze the transcript and within seconds not only give you an answer, but the answer includes sourced video clips.
So, if I ask the chat bot. How did the witness deSkribe the injuries that they suffered as a result of this accident and how it’s impacted their life? Rather than me having to go search through the transcript, it’s going to summarize what the witness said on those two issues, and it’s going to create video clips.
Witness explains can no longer go bowling or play with their kids or whatever it may be. So I can see the summary and click the video to watch where the witness actually [00:24:00] testified about this topic. So we actually just launched that just two weeks ago and are just starting to get feedback on it. I’ve actually used it in my firm for about the last month.
And it’s just such a time saver. I think it’s good. I really believe that that feature alone is going to be the dominant way that attorneys search their depositions. I mean, like, forget keyword search, forget, you know, the indexes at the back that we used to use of the P. D. F. Or the printed, you know, binder copy.
You can now find exactly what you need just by asking the software, and it’s going to pull it up, summarize it, and give you a clip of the corresponding segment. And so for folks like wondering, okay, well, is this, you know, and I, I feel kind of fancy because I just learned this, is it in the silo by itself?
You know, like nobody else, you know, unlike if you go to Google Gemini or ask, you know, I’m going to say Ask Jeeves, but [00:25:00] that’s, you know, ago, Elizabeth. That’s no it in? Like you got, you It’s in my repository or it stays there. It doesn’t actually have access to anything inside the internet to pull an answer for you.
So there’s a couple of parts to your question. So I’ll answer the first part of your question first, which is, I think more data privacy focus. If I was understand where you were getting at, we do not use anything that is submitted to Skribe to train large language models or to train, you know, some other law firms like customized model.
So we’re not, in other words, we’re not using. Questions that are submitted to or data that submitted to train the AI. It’s it is, um, the models already been trained and we’re not using fresh data to train the model. And then the 2nd part of your question. I’ve admittedly forgotten it’s in a silo, meaning like there, you know, it, [00:26:00] the.
is in there. My depositi then me, you know, it’s i I like if I go to google going to take anything I it’s nothing, none of tha Okay, I read your question Well, you used it correctly, but I was thinking I’ll explain what I was thinking. Just second. The answer to your question is Your data is not shared with anyone else.
The data that you submit isn’t used to benefit or provide access to some other firm. Like, in other words, if you submit a deposition transcript of some expert witness or something that is extremely confidential, you don’t have to worry about that showing up in your report. in some other firms answer when they chat with some transcript, even if it’s the same expert, right?
It doesn’t become a part of the source material for the large language model. So hopefully that answers your question. Now, one thing that we do plan to do in the future, we don’t have this yet, but in the future, we do plan to offer custom law firm models to where you [00:27:00] could begin to train your own law firms model and feed it more and more and more data.
So that you can get silo just for your firm customized answers. And so, you know, step one is to get something useful in users hands, see what they like. What did they not like? One thing that our team at Skribe does a great job of is listening to customers. So, you know, if some of your listeners want to test this, let me know.
I can get them set up to test it. and let us know what do you like? What’s missing? You know, what do you wish was a little bit different or better? Or, you know, does it solve your need? I know, you know, it solves a lot of mine, but every attorney has kind of a different wish list of the things that they like or that they want to see.
Some of the things that are on the road map are the ability to search across the entire case, So to be able to basically figure out, like, for example, you know, did this witness testify in a way that’s consistent with these other witnesses and have the analyze across multiple transcripts and [00:28:00] spot either consistencies or inconsistencies or things like that.
So. You know, a big part of Skribe’s mission is to, to really change and modernize again, not only how we capture and share testimony, but also how we analyze it. So we’re looking at all the different ways that we as a company can help attorneys and their teams do a better job at taking the depositions, do a better job at analyzing those depositions and hopefully do it at a lower cost than what they’ve been paying the last, you know, 10 years because the price to take a deposition in the old fashioned way really has gotten super expensive.
Yeah, it’s extremely cost prohibitive. If you are running a solo to small size firm, I mean, it’s really difficult, especially like some of the costs for all the stuff and. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think Skribe definitely solves, you know, an efficiency, you know, a cost perspective, but also I think a lot of people, I think you’d be surprised how many people still do not videotape depositions.
And I’m in, I’m in the camp with you. [00:29:00] I mean, I learned very early on videotape everything, and this really gives. actually an opportunity for solo small firms to video everything via zoom. So let me ask you a look because sometimes this happens and this may have may not have happened to you before, but I’ve seen some video clips where you may have a witness who, you know, they are using their iPhone and they’re in a car doing a deposition.
You know, The video technology. Is it just kind of like, Hey, whoever shows up and how they show up, you’re just kind of stuck with that? Or is there any way to really kind of modify that? Yeah, so it’s a great question. So two parts of that one, we’re not, we’re not as a software company going to modify anything that’s recorded.
So, you know, we’re going to be preserved, not only preserving and saving. We also certify like through an affidavit. the authenticity of the non stenographic record, which is the recording in any digital exhibits. Now, the first part of that is more of a threshold issue. What is an acceptable level of quality in [00:30:00] audio and video?
And we do have standards. And that’s one of the reasons that right now we have, we call them liaisons, the certified notaries that help facilitate the event end to end. They have standards that they follow to make sure that the Uh, the people that need to be on camera, on camera, that the witness is framed, that the audio quality is strong and will interrupt politely if there is a problem along the way, if someone’s audio connection drops or their video feed drops or staggers, you know, no technology is perfect.
No human is perfect, right? I mean, like I get stenographer transcripts are used to when we were using more traditional core reporting methods that did have mistakes in them. From time to time, I would say more often than not, I would find some type of mistake. Now, sometimes it wasn’t a big deal.
Occasionally, it was a big deal. The nice thing about doing non stenographic depositions is you have the audio and video. So that’s kind of the source of truth. That’s one of the big reasons. I’m such a fan of the video. Not only does it convey the [00:31:00] tone, the look on the face, that all those other things that maybe you don’t get from from the text on the page.
But it’s also the source of truth. Like if there’s a dispute about what a transcript says, we’ll just play back the video. So I think it’s, you know, it’s a great solution. There’s no perfect solution. There’s pros and cons with with everything. There’s trade offs. But I really do believe that The future of how we capture testimony and analyze it is going to be software powered.
That doesn’t mean there won’t be a human component against and our first absolutely have a place in the industry. Proofreading by human absolutely has a place in the industry, but. What we’re seeing through real users is the quality of the rough A. I. Transcript has gotten so high that you can get the substance, analyze it, clip it, share it, do all the things that you really need to do to move the case from point A to point B.
without ever even looking at the final transcript and really only [00:32:00] use the final transcript. If you need to file something with the court or if the case is actually going to trial and it’s time to start doing your page in line video cuts and page in line designations. I just want to echo something you said because This is a huge like fear point for a lot of lawyers because all I do almost all we do a virtual focus groups we have some is and that is like like using technology so the ability that what you I just want to echo it because you Skribe provides a person who will help you with your setup your witnesses setup and make sure that they sound clear like that is amazing that is such a huge bonus point because I know there are lots of times Cause I, we all had to kind of start using, you know, notaries on zoom and they just get in there and get out, like they don’t help you.
Like, so that is a huge bonus to have someone, if you are worried as a lawyer, cause sometimes we forget, oh my gosh, share screen or things like that. And [00:33:00] so having somebody else in the room was always going to be there to help with, you know, and make it so the lighting is right in this, in the square, That is so helpful, especially you don’t necessarily always want to be that person who says, Hey, witness who you don’t know, but I’m a lawyer.
Like I need you to turn the light on in front of you where, you know, it makes it a little bit easier for the lawyer to have that off their shoulders. Yeah. And we should like the competent Skribe tries to be very Customer focused and friendly and how we handle those issues. Like, for example, if this were a deposition and our audio and video connection kept going in and out and in and out the way we handle it is we just offer to reschedule at no cost.
Like, look, do we need to figure out a different day? Or does someone need to drive to a different location to get a stronger Internet signal? I mean, we really want to make sure that the clients and the clients being the scheduling attorney. and the opposing attorney have a good experience with Skribe, get a quality recording and ultimately see the benefits [00:34:00] of our solution that we offer.
Not only speed, not only the cost savings, but some of the other things that we talked about that will help them analyze and use the You know, their video in ways that maybe they don’t even imagine. I mean, you know, I remember the first time I filed something actually was a mediation position statement and I had sent this mediation position statement and there were quite a bit of deposition testimony in this case that was pretty critical and I’d put video clips into the letter into the word document and we’ve got tutorials on how to do that.
It really is simple. It takes seconds, but I had it. Pulled up Microsoft Word on one side of my monitor, the Skribe app on the other side of the monitor, and created these clips, and I remember showing up to mediation, and the mediator was just like, what out in the world did you do that? I’ve never seen, like, that was so helpful for me to be able to actually watch the witnesses testify about the key issues in the case.
You know, not only did I get the substance, but I was able to gauge my perception of their credibility, how they [00:35:00] present it, how they might present to a jury. And so it’s kind of like, I’m a techie. So I always, you know, I’ve used technology for so long. You start to take certain things for granted, but I do have to remind myself as well as the Skribe team from time to time that a lot of people have never done this.
They’ve never seen it, you know, video used this way. They’ve never, maybe they’ve never even used AI chat in their business life at all, like to analyze anything, much less a deposition transcript. So, yeah, that kind of goes back to the education component of this. And 1 thing that we offer is webinars for any law firms, like, we’ll come in and typically it’s a zoom based webinar where we will explain how the software works, the ways that you can leverage it in your practice.
And we even have some CLE accredited webinars as well, where you can get some credit, even, I think one of them even has ethics credit too. So it’s a lot of fun. Well, I know that, you know, the website itself and we’ll put like links in the show notes and all that good stuff has so [00:36:00] much good information on it.
So if somebody wanted to get started, like, what’s the best way to get started? If they’re still curious, like, tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. So two very easy options. So one, you could literally just go to the website, which is Skribe s k r I b e dot a I. And you could click schedule now at the top of the page and fill out the information with your email, the date of your depo and the name of your witness.
And that would Can I kick off an email to our support team and get you in the hopper? So to speak, the other option is they can email me. I’m happy to take an email and, you know, kind of do a handheld introduction to our team. My email is Karl also with a K at Skribe. ai. So either one, if they mentioned your show, we’re happy to provide a discount as well for their.
First deposition or their first upload if they want to just upload existing video, whether it’s a deposition or some other type of video, they’re welcome to kick the tires that way and we’ll provide a [00:37:00] discount to any of your listeners on their first Skribe usage. But I will say that I think that 1 thing that you mentioned that I want to maybe mention to your listeners is attorneys who aren’t videoing their depositions.
I completely understand the pain point of you signed up for a deposition with court reporting company A B, whoever they are, and you’re annoyed or frustrated that to get a video copy of the deposition, you can’t just press record. On the zoom or the court reporter won’t just press the record button on the zoom and that they want to charge you an additional substantial fee to have a videographer sit in and just press the record button on the zoom.
In addition to sending a court reporter to sit there and type the transcript and really that is 1 of the other frustrations that led to the founding of Skribe. That exact scenario happened to me about 3 years ago where a court reporter. She was very nice. [00:38:00] It wasn’t her fault. She was just the worker bee that had been sent to type the transcript.
I asked her if she could press record on this, this expert witness doctor deposition. And she just said, well, they won’t let me do that. You know, and I don’t see that a videographer signed up to be here today. Anyway, long story short, there’d been a miscommunication and you know, they were going to have to reschedule the deposition, pay a rescheduling fee.
And I finally just got fed up and I was working with a plaintiff’s firm out of Houston and they were very cooperative. And I said, why don’t we just hop on my zoom line? I’ll record it and I’ll share a video with you, me, and I’ll share a copy with the court reporter. And so we did that. And the very next day, I picked up the phone and called my co founder at Skribe, Tom Irby and said, okay, it’s time to start this company.
Like, this is, this is BS. There has to be a better way. Yeah, that is, I mean, so many, that, that particular irritation is really one of the things that I think has just really gotten out of hand with You know, [00:39:00] got just the cost of pursuing a case and then having, like, just this little nickel and dime. Oh, well, you can’t push the button, like, really, you know, turned a lot of people off.
And again, you know, like you said, there’s totally a place for court reporters. But some of those practices that have been happening after the pandemic was just like, oh, wow. Oh, you know, so I’m glad that you brought up that pain point because I know a lot of people listening. I’ve had that had that exact feeling of like, wait, what?
I can’t just push this little button here. Like, The other practice, this is just some pre advice to your plaintiff lawyer listeners. And this is not the goal here is not to necessarily intentionally compliment what you do or kind of feed you more work. But one of the things that I tell plaintiff’s lawyers is I get these demand letters, right?
And I had, you know, my team has a lot of cases were sifting through these, these settlement demand letters that, you know, have big numbers in them. And, One of the things that I truly do believe genuinely is [00:40:00] underutilized is two pieces of advice I’ll give your listeners. One, putting data in your settlement demand to help justify your numbers.
You can get the information. Go do a verdict search on a verdict search tool and get some sample jury verdicts or, you know, if you have access to, you know, sample arbitrator awards, whether that’s through or some other listserv that you can get some examples, you know, maybe redacted with party names, but some examples of what some arbitrators have done in similar cases.
or jury verdicts or bench trials. That really does help when a defense lawyer has to go in and justify their ask as to why am I recommending this settlement range. It’s not just numbers that have been thrown into a demand letter. The plaintiff’s lawyer has actually spent the time and trouble of putting some data into their demand.
We may not agree with it. We may find some other examples that are more favorable to our side, but at least it’s real numbers. And then the other piece of advice [00:41:00] I would give your listeners is not every single case across your entire docket. Probably merits doing a focus group or study group, but there’s a lot of them that do.
And it’s amazing like what you can do if you take modern technology, like some of the tools we’ve talked about today and create a highlight reel of look, we’ve now taken 5, 10, 15 depositions, whatever, whatever. Create a highlight reel of all those key testimony of the key moments, put that together along with kind of, you know, an opening closing, whatever else you want to do and get it in front of some people in the real world and see what they think.
And, you know, you may get some gems from that and that you can then use and put in your demand letter and say, Hey, we have focus group this case and Look, here is why we’re demanding X million or whatever it may be. We’re not just making this number up or pulling it out of thin air. We have gone to the trouble of actually pulling [00:42:00] verdict samples.
We’ve gone to the trouble of doing a focus group. And here is the feedback that we’ve got. And I think if, you know, attorneys would roll up their sleeves and do that work, they’ll be surprised at some of the results. I really believe they’ll get, you know, higher settlements as a result if they do that instead of just, you know, again, not all attorneys do this, but I get so many demands that are just fluff, fluff, fluff, you know, super inflated medicals without any, they come across as detached from reality.
And it makes it difficult for me to do my job if I don’t have some concrete examples or, you know, some focus group feedback, something that I can go to my. whether it’s an in house council or a risk manager or a third party administrator, whoever it is that I’m reporting to and say, here’s what they’re going to present.
And here’s kind of where they’re coming from. And here’s the work that they put in to get there. So anyway, I just wanted to share that with you. I’ve gone on a couple of other Podcasts where the audience tends to be [00:43:00] plaintiff’s lawyers. And selfishly, part of the reason that I offer that advice is it makes my job easier as a defense lawyer, when I have to digest all this and report it, you know, up the chain to the people that I work with.
I think you kind of nailed it when you said it’s, you got to show your work. And, you know, unfortunately this is not necessarily always true, but It can be that it’s just a form demand letter with some zero stuff. And it’s, and it really does make your job difficult. And that’s what I always tell people.
It’s like, listen, like, you know, you can’t just set, you got to show, you know, you got to show them. And so I appreciate you saying that. And again, you know, the verdict search is super easy. Join a database, you know, it will pay for itself like over and over and over again. Um, Because we mediate every case, right?
So, you know, if you’re going to mediation or doing that, and of course, you know, I personally, of course, love focus groups, and not to beat a dead horse, but just [00:44:00] just know that, like, the person that actually controls the purse strings. probably did not sit in on the depositions and probably doesn’t have the time in their schedule to watch an entire deposition video start to finish.
And the defense lawyer may or may not actually have the technical skill or competence or someone on their team to show clips of the deposition video. So if you get, if you have an extremely sympathetic client, right, who testified in a way that everybody would love or sympathize with or whatever it may be.
Or you crucified the corporate representative for the other side and the person looked angry or like a lying liar or whatever it may be. You just got this really good deposition testimony and made him look like crap, you know, on video or your witness is amazing. Take the time to create some clips of that.
Put it in your demand letter so that the [00:45:00] people that are actually authorizing the settlement authority on your case see it right so that they have the ability to quickly and easily click a link and watch it. Because it’s one thing for me to tell an in house attorney or claims manager that I think the witness came across as very sympathetic, or I think our defense witness did not present well, and that I don’t think they’re going to be the best witness for us.
It’s an entirely different thing to show them and let them watch it for themselves and make their own assessment. And so again, it kind of comes back to one thing we started the show with, which is You know, video is such a powerful form of evidence. And I think that with modern tools with using focus groups, you can really leverage video in ways that, you know, historically were took a lot of time money to do.
You can do it a lot more effectively and efficiently now with software. Yeah, absolutely. And again, like we are a society of videos, like the [00:46:00] number two, I think search engine is YouTube. Like we are a video. We, we expect it like right now. So that makes sense, you know, putting in your demand letters. I love the idea.
You said earlier as well, like send it to your mediators, you know, like they’re going to appreciate that, especially like, Hey, I got five clips. It’s going to take you less than five minutes. It’ll tell you everything you need to know about the case. Like, perfect. Save everyone some time. So. Well, awesome girl.
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I know that Skribe is going to solve so many awesome problems, but the number one being like, let’s get video testimony and let’s make it at a reasonable price. As long as also sinking, like, I think that’s also super helpful. If you have depots that have not been synced yet, so we will put your email, we’ll get the, the, the website put in there and the only other plug I want to Again, the website is so helpful and one of the cool things they already have up there for anybody who wants it are notices, like literally verbatim notices for [00:47:00] states where people are using Skribe.
So don’t even worry about having to create a new, new notice. They already have it up there on the website for you. So you guys are taking a lot of pain out of using this new, awesome tool. And I really appreciate that. Yeah, well, I appreciate you having me on the show and give me a chance to explain a little bit about, you know, what Skribe does, but also why it exists.
Like, what, why in the world did we start the company? What problems are we trying to solve? And, you know, hopefully some of that resonates with your audience. I think it absolutely will. I can tell you that as those are definitely some pain points that we have, you know, speaking collectively as a plaintiff’s lawyer.
So again, thank you so much, Karl, for joining the podcast and I hope everybody takes a chance to go to Skribe and take a look at it. Maybe use it for your next deposition. And until next time, thank you so much for listening.
Think jury instructions are where to start with getting ready for your jury trial? Think again.
Join Elizabeth Larrick as she shares key strategies for achieving courtroom success. Learn why understanding a judge’s rules and procedures is as important as knowing your case facts. Elizabeth delves into the specifics of voir dire, discussing time allocation and format variations to connect with jurors.
Elizabeth offers strategies for adapting trial preparations to meet the demands of any courtroom environment. Learn to manage expert witness schedules and align your presentation to the judge’s persona to avoid unexpected setbacks. Through real-life examples, this episode highlights the importance of meticulous planning and understanding a judge’s expectations to ensure effective execution of every trial element.
In this episode, you will hear:
Maximizing trial success strategies
Navigating trial preparations and judge persona
Nuances of voir dire: time allocation and format variations
Strategies for connecting with jurors
Legal research and preparation for judge’s trial persona to avoid unexpected setbacks
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Are you interested in booking a free consultation call about focus groups or trial strategy?
Use this link to find a convenient time for you to talk with Elizabeth.
Episode Credits:
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Episode Transcript
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m excited that you’re here today for this episode.
Before we dive in to our episode, I just want to recognize that today, the release date for this episode will be September 11th. And knowing what [00:01:00] a crucial date that was for our history, I just want to take a quick moment to pause for silence.
Alright, thank you so much. And if you’re listening to this later on, which can happen for folks in their download, that’s totally fine. Uh, I always want to recognize we have a major technical issue. Date that comes through if it’s on my release date. All right, so let’s jump right in This is an episode for anybody who is going to trial at any point in their career Okay, because we have been taught as lawyers that the place to start you get a case in Where do you go is to get those jury instructions and figure out what you need to prove And that puts us all on our legal track about all the facts we need to go find, the investigation that we need to do, and we’re fully engaged in our lawyer brain, right?
And that’s where law school tells us that. A lot of times our first jobs will tell you that. Okay, well what do you need to prove? Go [00:02:00] find those jury instructions. But a smarter place to start would be to go find the judge’s rules and procedures for trial because that will tell you a whole lot more about how you can try your case.
Because in trying cases, it is much more important about the how versus the what. Almost every case that I get involved with, cases I see and hear about, the lawyers have the what. They have the facts. They go investigate. They get the depositions. They talk to the witnesses. It’s the how that we are all striving to work on.
How do we talk to the jury? How do we present this the best way possible? The delivery of the information here is key, which is why we have so many trial consultants, focus groups, data surveys, jury consultants, right? Books upon books, CLEs upon CLEs [00:03:00] that try to tell us, help us understand how we can talk to juries and how we can communicate our cases.
So, The reason why I think we need to start with looking at our judge’s rules and procedures is because that will significantly craft how we will put on our trial. And the number one thing you want to find out about your judge in their courtroom is how they conduct voir dire. How much time do you get And what is the format?
Very significant. Some folks come in and you may, you may give you all day. Some may give you three hours, some 45 minutes, some 20 minutes, right? That is a huge difference. 20 minutes to a whole day, cover a whole lot more things in a full day. So you really want to be able to know how much time do I have?
Because then that will help me hone in on what are the key questions, [00:04:00] right? What are the key things that I need to talk Um, and then also allowing you to practice that because sometimes we’re used to having a significant amount of time and when we don’t, we have 20 minutes, we even have 45 minutes compared to normally having a day, we really have to work on making that succinct, but still being true to who we are and making connections with our jury.
The other part about this is the format or the style of what deer. Some folks, it’s. You turn around and you face the whole jury panel because they’re sitting where the public, in the gallery, where they would normally sit. And you get to see all faces and you talk to everyone all at once. Other folks, other judges like to put 12 in the box, 14 in the box, and that’s who you talk to.
Right. And then they just replace them as they go along. And that kind of makes it a little difficult for like, where are we putting our body and who we’re talking to and knowing that everyone is listening to us. [00:05:00] Right. Same thing, right? How are we navigating that and what kind of questions that we want, because Jury selection is this place that we actually can talk to jurors, where we build our credibility and this is our golden time to talk to them.
So we really want to use it wisely and have it designed the best way we can for our case. And best example I could give you is thinking about how Nick Rowley does jury selection. His key thing about jury selection is Eye contact, right? And being fully present with the folks that are talking to him and engaging with them on a real personal level, even though you’ve just met.
Um, and he does that a lot through eye contact, knowing what he’s going to say, but also again, being very present in that. And if we find out last minute, [00:06:00] we find out 30 days out. Oh, hey, by the way, this is going to be your jury selection. That doesn’t give us a lot of time because we’re putting all the other pieces of trial together.
We really want to make sure that we show up and we’re not surprised and we’re not hurrying, right? We’re being as present as we can with those folks because that’s that golden time, right? To be one on one with them and ask them questions, right? And be present in their answers. No other time do we get to do that in trial.
Uh, you may think, oh, well, we get to do closing arguments. Honey, if you, if you’re waiting to close an argument to bond, like connect, build credibility, you just missed the whole window, right? Missed the whole trial there. So number one, we want to find out from our judge, how are they doing jury selection?
Now, this also includes the ability to plan if you need to use a questionnaire. If 20 minutes, Then let’s do a questionnaire. And now you have the whole case to be thinking through what goes on this questionnaire. [00:07:00] What are the key things? key factors that we could ask on a questionnaire. That’ll get through, right?
Because we’re just gonna be thinking about what the other side’s gonna object to and what the judge will allow, right? Same thing. We want to be able to think that through and really practice that out and use our focus group information to plan out our questionnaire. And same thing if you may You’ll be able to file a motion to extend, you’ll know what your stats about how that’s going to work out for you or not, but just to be able to plan for that as well.
Again, there are lots of balls in the air when we think about getting in that 30 day mark before trial. Motions in limine. deposition diagnosis, then cutting those depots, you know, getting on the phone with counsel, getting all our witness lines lined up, talking to our experts. There’s a lot going on. And so that’s why we want to get this out early so that we can plan for it ahead of time.
The second key thing that we want to get and learn about our judge Transcribed by https: otter. ai Is there trial procedure, literally [00:08:00] how they like to have their evidence presented? Do they allow a PowerPoint, right? Do you have, are there special rules they want so that you can make sure the jury gets a copy of everything?
And then also their daily schedule. Judges have other stuff to do, right? And so some like to start late to allow business before the jury gets started. And some like to block off extra time at lunch. Some want to end early, some skip an entire day, some skip two days in a week to be able to handle this extra stuff.
And that is really crucial in planning your order of proof, planning out your witnesses, who is going to go and how are they going to end and what happens if you end on cross exam one day, like what kind of witness will that be? And that really becomes significant when you’re thinking about playing videos versus live witnesses.
And if you have some shortened days and you can predict around those now, that will significantly help you maybe be able to [00:09:00] avoid extra fees with our experts having to stay over because we know that our opposing counsel will be watching that clock and seizing that moment if they can. And that’s just kind of one of those things.
Can we plan around that a hundred percent? No, things come up that we can’t plan around. However, we can know at least several months out or even right when we start how this judge is going to run that daily schedule that will really help us be able to shape our evidence. And also to know, like, have a plan, a backup.
Maybe we have extra before and after witnesses to fill in gaps, right? Most of the time, this is kind of an afterthought. Like, oh, well, if we have them, great. If not, no big deal. However, think of it as, okay, we could have a whole different, we could have a whole group, a whole gang of folks that there always will be somebody ready every single day if we run out of things or if we need to have a gap filler, right?
Nothing wrong with that. Is there? Of course not. And again, that just shows the judge you’re ready and you’re [00:10:00] ready to go and try the case and you’ve got people waiting outside no matter what happens. And that is a significant thing. You want to make sure the judge knows that and the defense counsel does too.
All right, our last piece we want to dig into here with our judge’s procedures and rules is we want to do some legal research and find out what is the judge’s trial persona. How do they act in a trial? Some judges are the same, same emotion, same with trials. Some of them become this larger than life character.
Right? And we’re all just taking our place and they’re telling us what to do. And some really love trials. They love having trials, letting lawyers do their thing, watching it. They give lots of room here. Others do not. So they’re not, maybe they’re not going to pay attention at all. Maybe they’re going to be working on other things they have to do.
And that makes it difficult, right? If you’ve got a really contentious opposing counsel. to get things done because it’s [00:11:00] really going to slow things down if you’ve got a judge who’s just not into it and not paying attention. And so you want to go out and you want to ask other lawyers. What their experience has been, uh, and then you really just want to go watch, right?
Go see how they act and go see how they like to have things done. When there is a trial, there is a huge difference for most judges between how they are regularly in a motion docket and how they are in trial, right? Having that juror in the room significantly changes things. And again, you also think about, at least for us here in Texas, our judges are elected, right?
And so. That’s their, that’s their electorate right there picking them. So they, again, it really depends on, I’ve had judges who just, they love it. They ham it up. They tell jokes and that really, you know, not that it’s a problem, but it can kind of be a little bit of like, okay, let’s, you know, or they, Like to plant themselves in the trial, right?
They’re very active. Like they ask their [00:12:00] own questions or some don’t. And so you really want to know what is their persona so that you can be prepared for that. The last thing you want to do is be surprised by judge behavior because that can really throw you off. And you know, basically we’re in a fishbowl here and the jury is watching and I’ve definitely had stories where judges can break your trial.
Where they have made up their minds already that this is not going to be a place where there’s going to be a big verdict. This is not going to be a place where we’re going to use the reptile. And you just don’t want to catch them off guard either. And you want to be prepared for surprising them, right?
Because they’re, some of them will do their research of you too, and some of them won’t. You know, and that’s kind of the place where you really want to make sure if you need to adjust what you’re doing, meaning you need to file trial briefs months out, you need to have research on hand, branded out, ready to go, as soon as there’s an objection, [00:13:00] and be prepared to ask for that proffer in the face of defeat.
Right. And just knowing, okay, I’m not going to be caught off guard. I don’t want to caught, catch the judge off guard. So how do we do that? How do we, you know, graciously do that and play along their rules in their sandbox. So where does this episode come from? I’m working with a lawyer doing some virtual focus groups for several months now, getting up ready for a trial that’s coming up and They brought me the judge’s rules and procedure, and it was kind of a, you know, a big blow to the case because it was such a limitation, specifically, let’s talk about the schedule.
So, they have half days. And every other day, there’s no Friday. So when they were looking at, we’re looking at, okay, how do we create this, this order of proof when before the plan [00:14:00] was, let’s be fast. Let’s be efficient. Let’s, let’s get this done in two weeks. Now it’s looking like this is four or five. This could be a six week trial with very disjointed.
attention, right? If you were just doing half days and then coming back and maybe missing a Friday here and there. And so the other thing too is like, oh my gosh, the, the time expense of being out of the office, the extra expert fees, right? If they get caught on the stand and cross exam keeps going and they got to come back the next day and then the next day.
You know, it can really significantly add up with that time expense. The other limitations were on jury selection and trial briefing. And there was a little bit of sliver lining with it with the questionnaire, but it really kind of was a blow for how they had been thinking about and planning already, right?
We’d been doing focus groups, how they’re planning to do this, and then [00:15:00] looking at how do we adjust. What, how do we adjust and work with this particular rules, procedures, and then also the persona. Because the persona was, this is one of the toughest, right, folks, cause they just don’t really like trying cases.
So they make it very, very difficult. That’s why a lot of these rules are here. They don’t, they want to rule the roost. And so how do you do that and prepare yourself, but also prepare them so they don’t feel like, Oh. You’re just like everybody else, right? Not gonna follow the rules. And that was one of the things that is that right at the top of the judge’s rules, know the rules.
And so, okay, you know, how do we learn more about this? But really, you know, you just don’t want to be in that place where you’ve been working really hard, pairing your case, you’re taking all these depositions, and then you just get a, like, just a gut punch with the procedures and just, oh my gosh, like, how are we going to do this?
In an efficient way and keep attention [00:16:00] and memory right thinking through how do we make this memorable for the jurors who may be here for six weeks, but they’re only getting a half day of information, you know, just really. Okay. How do we do that? And how do we design direct? You know, how do we kind of plan for cross?
Like, how do we make our depo videos? Like, how do we plan for jury selection, voir dire? So, you know, we always want to be thinking about these things. But the simple truth is, if you don’t start your trial preparation, when you file, with the judge’s rules and procedures, you can be left creating a case that you never get to put on.
And that’s not what you want to do, right? We want to make sure we want to be time efficient. with ourselves and budget efficient with our cases. And so, you know, number one, we need to learn our jury selection, how our judges like to run voir dire. We need to learn about what is their daily schedule? What is their procedure for admitting evidence?
What do they want to see and [00:17:00] hear? Right? It’s a print and paper kind of person. And what is the judge’s trial persona? Do they let you do visual aids? Do they not? You know, are they, uh, love trials or do they not? How is it going to be in that room? Everyone in there and how that judge is going to perceive the things that are going on.
And as trial lawyers, we must always, we must be thinking about how we will try our cases. How will we talk to the jurors? How will we deliver the case? The evidence? So, we need to know the rules of the playground. We need to know those early. We avoid extra expenses. Build our case, our evidence, the way that fits in with the rules of the playground, the ability.
To practice all those things and design your jury selection and really feel confident and not surprised by your judge and their persona that you may encounter. All right. I [00:18:00] hope that this episode was helpful. If you are curious about doing focus groups with me or even a trial strategy call, you can book a free consultation with the link in the show notes.
Client depositions in 2024 are still virtual, but how are you preparing your client? Virtual? In person? Equip yourself with strategies that ensure your client is not just ready but confident and composed. Join me as I dive into the essential practice of virtual deposition preparation. You’ll learn why it’s crucial to simulate the actual virtual environment during practice, helping clients handle technical hiccups and communicate effectively when things go awry.
In this episode, I share actionable tips drawn from real-life experiences. From practicing with Zoom to managing on-screen documents, discover how segmenting preparation sessions can vastly improve client performance. Tune in to understand why treating these practice sessions with the utmost seriousness can set your clients up for success, making those virtual depositions less daunting and more manageable.
In this episode, you will hear:
Importance of simulating the virtual environment during practice
Handling technical issues and communicating effectively online
Benefits of segmenting preparation sessions for better client retention
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Episode Transcript
Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. I’m your host, Elizabeth Larrick, and I’m really glad that you’re here today.
This is going to be a short episode, but very vital to what you do every day because we are talking about client deposition preparation, nearly any litigation case. your client is going to have to be deposed. It’s just part of the process. It’s how the other side does their calculations. And mostly like we’ve talked about before in other episodes, your client has got a really big target on their back.
So they want to get their bite at your client in a deposition. However, here we sit and it’s 2024 and a majority of client depositions are still being taken virtual. In my experience, what I have been seeing it in helping lawyers with deposition prep. A good chunk is still being taken virtually. And so I wanted to put this episode out to kind of a little bit of refresh, but also tell you what the experience has been that I have seen that really helps specifically with preparation.
And it comes out of a conversation that I had with a lawyer recently who asked me what my opinion was about preparing clients in person or virtually. And what I told him was, Hey, listen, here’s how I think of it, which is practice. Like you play, if your deposition is going to be taken virtually, you need to be doing the preparation, all of it, or a good chunk of it.
Most of it needs to be done virtually with your client because we want to give them the best preparation possible. So even if. You are going to just spend maybe an hour on one day and an hour on another day with your client. Again, we’ve talked about the extreme benefits of separating your prep file on two different days.
That little trick alone will significantly increase client success of retention of the information you’re giving them. But Again, going back to different days when we’re just going to have two hours, one hour on each day, having that preparation virtually, even if you have access to your client, you live in the same town, they want to drive down.
Like you still want to put them in a different room, put them in front of a computer and practice being on front of the zoom, because there are so many frustrations that to us now, we’re four years in. Okay. To doing a lot of things virtually. We, it’s now normal to us, but most of our clients have gone back to doing most of their things and their jobs back in person.
So they have forgotten about the frustration that can come when you can’t hear or the vigilance you have to have, that if that last part of that sentence cuts out or that question, you have to stop and say, can you start over? I didn’t hear that. And that can cause a lot of frustration. For the client in the deposition in the virtual depositions.
And so you just, you really want to give them a good head start with practicing in preparation on zoom. The other thing I find really helpful is that when you practice looking at documents. Because again, there is a lot of extra burden on the person being deposed to say, I can’t see that. Can you make it bigger?
Or I can’t hear you. Or I need you to repeat that, which wouldn’t happen if you were in person. So if you’re practicing, you’re preparing your client in person for virtual, They’re going to miss out on that whole practice they would have with the virtual. So again, this is a short but crucial tip in preparing clients for depositions when it’s going to be virtual and practice like you play.
I used to play a lot of team sports, soccer, basketball. And if we’re out there lollygagging or doing whatever our coach would be like, if you, this is how you practice, then this is how you’re going to play a game time. So we have to practice hard. Like it is a game time. And that’s exactly what I always say here.
People ask me like, well, what’s your preference? And I always say, well, we have a moment in time to prepare people to do their best In the step position where they may only have one, two, three hours to give everything they’ve got to this other side for evaluation for, you know, all these things, how they are perceived, what they say, how they say it.
And so we have so much to pack in, in the form of information, in the form of. Here’s how things are going to happen. And so doing this simple step of doing it on virtual, really, we’re covering that step. Instead of me explaining to somebody in person, Oh, you’re going to have to do this. They have the actual practice of Oh, I can’t hear you.
Oh, say that again. Oh, I can’t see that document. Or, you know, can you highlight that for me? Like being very proactive in being able to hear and see what’s going on. And again, just working through some of that frustration, not to mention the small things that we talked about originally when virtual came out.
Depositions came about, which is, do they have the right setup? Meaning do we need to get them somewhere where they can have good internet and good lighting? Do we need to change their background or teach them how to put the blurry background on so that that’s not even a problem with the deposition. You know, that way, again, we’re starting out on the best foot possible and giving the best practice.
Now, if our deposition is in person, then yes, all or most of your preparation should be in person. Again, for that same reason, being face to face. having that different emotional connection that you, that somebody may have or that pressure, right. Of being, you know, deposed with a bunch of strangers in a room.
Again, this is always why when we are preparing for deposition in person, we don’t prepare somebody at their home at a place where they are very comfortable. Like we prepare in a stale conference room, because that is how that deposition will be a stale. emotionless room versus being at home, right?
There’s a lot of comfort. And that’s the same thing with virtual, right? That is a huge benefit of being in a comfortable place, being at home versus, being in this, you know, stale environment where, you know, any emotions being sucked out of the room by the opposing counsel. And you want to be able to, again, practice that with folks they’re getting ready for deposition.
So this is a short episode of, I felt it was really important because in my conversation with this lawyer, where we talked about that, like, do we do it virtual or do we do it in person? And Oh, this is how I’ve always done it is go in person. And then it was like, he said, wow, I never thought of it that way.
And you should be telling people this because they’re probably thinking the same way I am, which is, Oh, it’s a deposition. I’m going to go in person and prepare this person and, you know, have a better connection and, uh, you know. Well, sure, but we’re missing out on that practice. So this is me telling all of y’all, uh, one of the easiest, smallest things to do is switch that preparation from in person to Zoom when you have that virtual deposition notice.
Okay. And also think of this too, when it comes to experts, which I think we are already doing this. Um, yeah. But if you’re not, same rule applies for our experts, right? Give them that practice. If they’re not used to it, give, especially with the documents. And that’s a whole different ballgame. Most of our clients don’t have to tackle a ton of documents, right?
We may have medical records, maybe some emails, text messages, uh, maybe some contracts, things we have to look at not nearly as much as our experts may. So remember practice like you play. Right. And this applies, you know, when I talk about this too, when we talk about focus groups, right? Practice like you play because you want it to feel as realistic as game time as possible.
Right. So that’s what we’re doing here today. Okay. I hope that this episode was helpful. If it was, please pass it on to somebody else. Click that little share button, text it to somebody, send an email to somebody who you know is possibly needs to hear That they could lift a burden off themselves, but also do this virtual preparation before depositions with clients to give them that added bonus, that added benefit of practicing with that platform before they get there.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening. I hope that you enjoyed it. If you would please leave a review. I got to tell you, it’s been a little while, almost a year. So somebody just reach down there, pick those five, hit the rating, but also leave a little review and it helps other people find this podcast. All right.
Trial lawyers: Did you know that seeking feedback from friends and family might be sabotaging your trial preparation? Join me as I break down why this common practice can be a trap rather than a helpful shortcut. In this episode of Trial Lawyer Prep, you’ll uncover three fundamental reasons why feedback from close individuals is inherently unreliable. From the biased nature of their opinions to the undue credibility they grant you, and how these skewed perspectives can infiltrate your subconscious decision-making—understand why these pitfalls can negatively impact your case.
I’ll also shed light on the significance of impartial jury research, and how recruiting unbiased participants can make all the difference. Discover why feedback from neutral strangers offers a more accurate simulation of a real jury’s perspective and why cutting corners due to time, money, or fear of negative feedback could jeopardize your case’s success. Don’t miss this vital discussion on enhancing your trial strategies with reliable, unbiased feedback!
In this episode, you will hear:
The dangers of relying on feedback from friends and family for trial preparation.
Three main reasons why friendly feedback is unreliable: inherent bias, undue credibility, and non-representative sample.
The subconscious influence of biased feedback on decision-making in trials.
Importance of impartial jury research and recruiting unbiased participants for focus groups.
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Episode Credits:
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Ever wondered how focus groups could be the game-changer for navigating complex liability issues in civil litigation? Imagine unlocking jurors’ hidden perspectives and using these insights to your strategic advantage. This episode takes you through real-world applications, like contributory negligence in construction injuries or multiple defendants in medical malpractice cases. We dive into the nuances of a recent car crash case involving seatbelt usage to show you how a layered presentation strategy can yield invaluable insights.
We also discuss the crucial practice of conducting and recording debrief sessions right after focus groups. Learn why transcribing and creating memo reports can elevate your mediation preparation and case strategy. From clarifying responsibility to uncovering critical facts, we lay out how focus groups can help frame information for the best outcomes. Plus, we offer practical resources and invite you to join our email list for upcoming courses on running your own focus groups. Don’t miss out on these essential techniques that could transform your approach to complex liability cases.
In this episode, you will hear:
Navigating a common challenge in civil litigation: problematic liability
The value of a layered presentation strategy
The role of focus groups to uncover hidden factors in complex liability cases
The importance of conducting and recording debrief sessions immediately
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Supporting Resources:
In the episode, I mentioned Episode 112 where we look at a specific case example for flipping contested liability and expanded blog.
Are you interested in taking my online course: Virtual Focus Group Foundations Workshop?
Please register for my email list and you will receive the announcement when the course is offered again.
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
Join us as we speak with John Prudhomme from CPM Injury Lawyers about a gripping case involving a fuel tanker rear-ending a dump truck on I-35. Despite undeniable footage and an outright admission from the tanker driver, the defense stood firm with no settlement offers. Find out how a virtual focus group became a game-changer in predicting jury perceptions and why the trial venue added layers of complexity to an already dramatic case.
John also shares insights from a case involving a veteran client whose trial took an unexpected turn. We discuss how the jury’s interest veered from medical details to family dynamics, revealing the nuanced way personal stories can sway verdicts. With veterans on the jury panel and collateral source issues lurking in the background, emphasizing the family impact became crucial. Tune in to hear how highway speed regulations and surveillance footage reshaped the narrative and influenced the jury’s decisions.
We also get into the nitty-gritty of trial strategies and financial considerations. From life care plans to the client’s lifestyle choices, find out how these elements played a crucial role in the jury’s perception. John emphasizes the unpredictable nature of trials, the importance of expert testimonies, and the critical role of pre-trial preparations. This episode is a goldmine of insights for any trial lawyer seeking to refine their skills and connect more effectively with juries
In this episode, you will hear:
Case study: fuel tanker rear-ending a dump truck on I-35.
Utilizing virtual focus groups to understand jury perceptions and defense strategies
Adjusting trial tactics based on real-time feedback
Challenges of dealing with surveillance evidence and unexpected jury reactions
The critical role of life care plans and financial implications in influencing jury decisions
Importance of pre-trial preparations and adapting to unpredictable trial elements
Follow and Review:
We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple ‘+’ in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Supporting Resources:
Would you like to talk to John Prudhomme about his experience? Questions about his trial?
If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.com Let them know I sent you.
